Transcript: Kavan the Kid: The Batman Film Warner Bros Took Down, and What He Built Instead

Kavan's first time on the show

0:14 We are back and live. Hopefully everyone's hearing us around the world. Here we go. Andrew's put in the comments. And now we are on our third ever creator session. And we are super honored to have Kavan the kid with us. and we're going to be looking at some of Kavan's best work. We've been featuring him throughout our regular show throughout the 3 years that we've been broadcasting the regular show and it's Kavan's first ever time on the show. So, I'm super excited to have him on. He's joining us at super early. We know lots of you are also tuning in from San Francisco, LA. Let us know where in the world you're tuning in from, what your interest in the eye is, what your favorite Kavan piece is, and all of the above. We've got Andrew, my regular co-host joining me, and Paul in the background. Andrew, how's it going, All good.

1:05 All good. Looking forward to this one. You know what I love about this show is that we've been showcasing some of the best creatives and getting them on to speak about what they've been doing, showcasing some of it, their thoughts, and also putting a face behind the content is always a good thing. So, I'm looking forward to this show today. Exactly. And I'm so happy that we've got Kavan joining us. As I say, we're going to drop all your questions into the chat throughout the show. We'll be highlighting them to Kavan at the end of the show. We've got lots of questions of our own. We've also been collecting your questions over the many shows that we've had Kavan appearing in the live show, you know, through his various pieces. And uh yeah, for people who don't know Kavan, I don't know how the hell you're working in the space and don't know Kavan because he's got one of the biggest profiles as well as Gossip Goblin that we've seen to

1:55 date, which is a huge testimony to the self-publishing that you've managed to do on all of that. By the way, you also created an AI Batman film. Um and did you get that taken down was one of the first questions. Um that was uh someone poised into our thing. So what happened there exactly? Yeah. So back in uh I mean that was kind of you know like what also was a big contributing factor to the birth of Phantom X. Um made a Batman film alongside uh Mike J. Mitch and Sav the fellow co-founders of Phantom. put it out uh you know did exceptionally well, got a lot of like press, all this stuff. This was in December of 2024 and it was up for I think four four days or something like that. And then uh and it was like, you know, it was at that time

The Batman film, and Warner Bros

2:48 the most views I had ever gotten on YouTube and stuff. And so I was like, "Oh man, this is awesome." So I remember, you know, like checking it the like fifth day and I was like, "Wonder how it's doing." Gone. And I was like, "Huh?" And then I go to all my other socials, gone. And I was like, and then, you know, YouTube will show you who pulled it. And so, sure enough, it was Warner Brothers. [laughter] And then then they sent a cease and desist, like, you know, I got it in the mail like several weeks later. But, um, I didn't bother, you know, to reshare it after it was down. And the funny thing is is once YouTube pulls something for like a copyright infringement that file if you try to re-upload that same file it won't even upload. It'll just be like this this file is under a copyright. So um so yeah it was gone. U so um I always love

3:37 like uh because you know a lot of people have like fond memories of it even like when we go to like uh studio meetings and stuff like that they'll be like oh man that Batman film it's really not that great. Uh it was at the time I think but like very dated when you watch it but I think it's that idea of like you can't see it anymore so you can you can kind of build up like this make it better than it actually was. It's like like when you think of like a film from your childhood and you're like, "Oh man, that movie was amazing." And then you watch it as an adult and you're like, "Woof, that that was not very good, [laughter] man." For the time of its release, though, and the tools that we were playing around with the same thing, honestly, we made Spider-Man shoes, we made all sorts of things, and we were in exactly the same space. So, you know, and the fan stuff we've been watching on the show, Star Wars, and all of this, like truthfully, I think it was just an exciting time for everything going on, wasn't it? And so you're well excused for

4:27 something like that. But the fact that you got hit with that and uh you learned your lesson so quickly there was interesting for Phantom X as you say. That's really interesting arc. And I know because we chatted in um upscale San Francisco that you actually come from a music video and commercial background like 15 years before this um and then obviously through midjourney and everything. What do you think from those sort of experiences has brought the best skills to your AI stuff? You know, like what what's the most transferable from your previous life? Um, I would say mostly probably in the the music video space and then I also did photography as well. Um, I put out a like a book and as funny as it was, I I was working on this fine art photography book which has like a lot of art styles that is very similar to like what you see in Chronicles of Bone. Um, actually

Fifteen years of music videos and photography

5:19 have it here. I can show you. Oh, the lore, Andrew. We're getting the lore right. I'm so glad I asked that The funny the funny thing about this book is um I was working on it and I had already had the title made and I was working on it all through 2019 and hyping it up. The title just so happened to be Stay Inside and Don't Let the Dreams Out and I released it March of 2020. [laughter] In the middle of co. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't mean to predict the pandemic by any means. What the hell? So that's the [clears throat] like there's like the bandage covered like character which is like similar to like the collector and stuff. And so it's all like self-portrait uh photography.

6:06 Um, so yeah, you know, like images like this, and this is all like pre-ai, you know, this is like back in the old Photoshop you know, like and I would like make like masks and things and and all sorts funk, you know, I've always had a a real deep fascination with masks and just like trippy stuff. Um, very like Pink Floydesque, I guess. But um yeah, so I would say that and then the music video side because when I was doing videos uh specifically like back in my early days um with like Island and Atlantic Records, um I was kind of gotten known as like the guy that they could give like a somewhat of a smaller budget to, you know, in the 20 to 30k range and I could make it look really big. But

6:58 in order, you know, for me to actually profit on that, um, I didn't hire much of a crew. So, I wanted to to keep as much as I could. So, I do as much as possible. So, I was like the set designer, the set builder, I was the cinematographer, the director of photography, the editor, you know, and so like I had to learn like all of these skills um, just outside of directing. And uh you know I would say like that like s like you know it was like like super saiyan training for like learning all these different skill sets and and I did that you know for a long time until I switched over to doing commercials years later. Um and it was a lot of fun you know and uh probably you know where I would say like you know learned learned I learned because I went to film school but I would say in those years I learned more than I did in actual school. I'm a big believer of like

Why film school is a waste of time

7:50 especially in 2026 and I mean I've been saying this forever. Don't go to film school. It's a waste of time. Just go to the school of YouTube and you can all and the library and books on Amazon, you know, like there's so much information out there that um to learn film theory and and structure and shot composition and all that. And then the other stuff is like, you know, like I think when it comes to being a filmmaker is just your your own creative ingenuity um is going to shine through. So like once you know the technical side and that's just like AI uh you know it's a technical learning curve that you learn but you can go fairly quick. It's it's the the vision that every individual brings um that makes you know their voice stand out and what and that's what you know I think has been for me my absolute most enjoyable and favorite thing about AI is

8:42 uh you know they'll say that oh it's a it's a rip and all this stuff. I I I mean, yeah, there's there's some creators out there who, you know, just kind of, you know, are making like their own version of Avengers or or like what I did way back in the day, a version of Batman, but I would say where we're at now, I've seen more original work through AI than I've seen come out of Hollywood, you know, like because so many so many creators finally get to express their vision and their voice. Um and I think the the most exciting thing is is without any form of studio interference or people telling them like oh you have to do it like this or or you know from our analytics we've seen like and and I've always said that I was like AI didn't kill Hollywood Hollywood killed themselves when they started unity uh using um analytical writing like you know that that kind of defeats the whole purpose of art is you know art should come from from like a

9:33 passion and and a place and and um so that's what's been so exciting you know and seeing unique stories from all over the world. I mean like everywhere. And that's just I think your self-publishing is insane, man. Like that's a thing that I think the real thing like having a YouTube that you reach millions of views every time a Chronicles of Bone episode goes up and this means you don't need the publishing, you know, in the mid part. You don't need the green light from other people and those technical notes. And as you say, it's like this is what we've discussed week on week, Andrew, isn't it? It's like there's a lot of new reach to market as well as a lot of like uh who can make stuff and and decentralization of financing and decentralization of funding and Yeah.

Self-publishing, and taking distribution away from studios

10:18 I think obviously look at the big studios the power that they had or one of the powers is distribution but you take that away from them because of YouTube or Instagram and stuff like that then all of a sudden it's do we need them? And one of the things I got from what you was breaking down was the idea that I'm working in this team and this person's saying I can't do this and this person saying I can't do that. And obviously it looks like a lot of the some of the things that you're doing is Do you prefer to work solo? So for example, when you talk about the Magnific original uh story Chronicles of Bone, was that done alone or was that done with a team? Uh, so Chronicles of Bone is made entirely by me, uh, by myself. I will say like, uh, Sav, the other co-founder comes in a lot of times and saves my ass on VFX cleanup.

Chronicles of Bone is made entirely solo

11:09 [laughter] You know, like there's some guy does [__] that you're just like, "What is this?" And then I'm like, "Hey, Seth, I need [laughter] your help." Um, but you know, like outside of that, like all the jenning, editing, design, everything, you know, like that that's all, you know, all over here. And then, you know, I started writing Chronicles of Bone. Like, I wrote Chronicles of Bone probably for like six or seven months before I even went into production on it. Um, like back during the like Echo Hunter days, you know, like when I was making those films, I was like noodling on on Chronicles. Uh, and that uh the funny thing is is like how the inspiration all started was when they announced Gu Del Toro's Frankenstein. And I don't know why, but I just kind of had this like sigh of like ugh. And and I love Gilmo Del

The del Toro Frankenstein moment that started it

11:59 Toro. Like I love him. And but I was just like I knew what it was going to be. I was like it's just going to be the same Frankenstein movie just better shot. It's the same story just like that we've seen a hundred times just updated. And I was like man like that's where it got me going with the the public domain characters. I was like, you know, there's so many of these cool characters like King Arthur, Robin Hood, Peter Pan, Captain Hook, and all them, but I was like, we've seen their stories so many times that it's like if they just update it, like who cares? Like it's like, man, we've seen it. And so I was like, what if I like put all these characters into a singular world, stripped them all down to like the, you know, the bare basics, and then rebuilt them like in in my own in my own story, in my own ways, you know. um and and not following, you know, like like some of them are kind of like inspired by, you know,

12:51 like realistic, you know, like real times and history and all that. And I was just like, "No, we're just going to make up a whole fake world, throw them all in, you know, all this stuff." And then and then once it it started going, it was just like one thing after another. And it just exploded of like, you know, when you're writing and you're just kind of like letting the characters take you everywhere and and so like I wrote like the whole show is done when it comes to writing all the way like so it's going to be a five season show. Like that's how that's how long it'll take me to tell the whole story. I remember you telling me this in South Fran and I was like wow, you know, like it's incredible with all the writing and stuff, but Andrew's question about you making it all and just getting postprouction is wild. Honestly, the numbers it's doing and the fact that it's a solo project is probably the biggest that's ever happened in space. And that's truly incredible because Zach, as we found out last week, is working with like 30

13:41 odd people and stuff, you know, like it's really a much bigger overall project and stuff like this. And it's He puts out a lot more he puts out a lot more content than I do. So like he's got he does a lot of Exact. He does a lot of his Instagram solo stuff to his credit, you know, but then on the bigger projects for these YouTube long form, then he has like a much wider team of uh people as well as real voice actors and musicians and everything else to be found out. But it's truly remarkable. I love that you set us up, by the way, with Echo Hunter because that is the first clip that we've got to showcase today. And we watched this and at the time I literally was a gasp with the sound design. Man, this was the thing that really stood out to me in your first piece. I will say I come from an audio background. Andrew does too. This is a piece that really stood out to us audio-wise even

Setting up Echo Hunter

14:32 in the first five minutes. And we know it was like a 22minute piece. So we're going to show the first five minutes. And we want everyone if you haven't already to go and watch Echo Hunter after the live show in its entirety because really for the time it came out, it is breathtaking and I still watch it a lot to this day truthfully. So let me give it a little bit of a premise and then we've got some questions as well. So h how the show works is basically we'll watch it and we'll be taken off screen right now and so everyone will have the full experience and then as um we come back we'll ask some of the questions and it'll be watching it again to the side basically and you guys ask your questions and we can get these to Kavan as well. Paul will be starring them as the producer at the end of the show and we can get all of your questions about every piece that we watch. So, in a world where the elite harvest clones

15:22 for spare parts, a relentless hunter begins to question his mission while confronting his forgotten past, we'll have to choose between duty and a devastating truth. Let's check it out. I

ECHO HUNTER

17:25 was wondering when one of you would Tell me, does a corpse ever consider the purpose of its actions? I'm not here for games, Raymon. I doubt this was part of his [music] I'm only going to ask once. It's time to go. You already know I'm not getting into that box of yours. Then that leaves us one option. You'll have to keep my organs intact. Can't have my original getting virus Your original's dead, Raymond. Wait,

18:16 what? There is no grand design, only

19:14 existence. But the echoes, [music] they chose their design. Living in the shadow of their originals. At least they know why they [music] While the rest of us rot, the [music] echo who don't run are gifted comfort. Indulge long enough to keep them docile, until they [music] are needed. In the end, it's always the same. They run and they die. Echoes of a [music] bad choice. reporting

20:11 card 0004. Wait, the card four? You'll find the cerebral cortex is undamaged. Garrick, that card was capture only. Situation didn't allow it. You just sunk seven years of work. The one organ we needed is still intact. Let me be clear, you reanimated piece of garbage. You hunt the way we tell you to hunt, and you box product the way we tell you to box it. I swear ever since your last partner, I am getting tired of dealing with this. Garrick, what was the picture count for card 4? 12 pictures. [clears throat] It was 15 pictures. Bounty was raised. Perfect. Make it three. Next

21:03 time you're getting a partner. See what you can salvage. As Kareem said, Kareem said, "I remember seeing this for the first time. That piece set a new standard when it came out. Absolutely. Completely great. I got goosebumps on the Echo Hunter sound design then and I got goosebumps on the Echo sound design now. Love it. Back back in the day when when AI didn't do any sound [laughter] that sound the sound design took so long like you know you do the production then the sound design's a whole a whole another of course but it was it was a lot. I mean I love sound. I've said it you know many times where I I believe

Sound is 90% of a film

21:56 sound is 90% of a film. Um, so yeah, I I spent a lot of time on that one with with the sound design and and building it and uh it was, you know, it was it was a a laborous process, but it was it was a really rewarding one building out that sound design for the film. And then Miguel Miguel Johnson, the composer, did just did, you know, knocked it out of the park with the music. I thought the beginning bit where like the first minute or so or probably two minutes there was no speaking it was just the sound and that just told like literally what we're watching on the screen just told an amazing story. So I guess one of the first questions is is like how do you even think of this? You know how do you even where do you start? Is it a case that throughout your life you've always had these stories and now it's a case like I can bring them to life?

Where the story came from, and why masks

22:47 like how do you decide whether I put this in this story or connect it to another one? Does it is it individual story? Like what's the inspiration? Let's just focus on this one uh first. Yeah. So, Echo Hunter was a story I had long before AI. Um but when you know so I did the Batman film and then did the Star Wars fan film and and was you know the whole reason I was doing those other like existing IPs is I didn't want to like waste any of my ideas before I felt the tools were at a point that I could actually make something that like had real substance and could could like you know ideally hold the test of time for as long as it could. And so I felt like at that at this point we were finally at a point where I was like, "Okay, I'm going to attempt it. I'm going to make my own first original idea." And because Echo Hunter, the

23:39 story revolves so heavily around the characters wearing masks. Um, I knew that would lend itself for where AI was at the time. um you know to where I could like wouldn't be seeing too many human faces and and like a lot of the talking you know is is the is the two echo hunters Garrick and Jack's talking so you're not going to see too much like where I'm having to worry about like especially where back then I think that's runway act one you know so like uh so yeah so that's why I chose that story because I just felt like it fit and so then you know the original story was was like kind of written in a feature film format so it was condensing down, you know, into a short a short film format. Um, but yeah, it was it was it was an incredible experience, you know, getting it broke so many grounds, didn't it? Because we know that it was the first like

24:31 SAG after approved film and other things like that and that um even we've got um uh some people mentioning that they know one of the actors that you used in Berlin and stuff like this. Gideon Gideon Burkhard. Yeah, he's also he's in uh in Inglourious Basterds. Wow. Yeah, he's one of he's one of the he's one of the bastards. He he's the His his his character dies in the uh if I remember correctly, I believe his character dies in the the famous three scene when you know like we'll have three and you know the guy didn't he did it like this [laughter] is like this. Thank you so much for that tidbit. We've got some legends watching us right now that are, you know, it's crazy how many of them are also featured in the

25:23 show. And it's crazy that we've only just got you on the show for the first time. As I said, you're one of the most featured artists of our entire show's history of three years. And when did that piece come out exactly? Was it about 18 months ago or like Let's Let's see. I have my YouTube runway act one you mentioned that was quite a while ago now. That really first gen video stuff, wasn't it? It it I released it May 28 of 2025. it's over a year now. It's held up incredibly well, honestly. And I think the s, you know, the actors you use, the sound design you used, all of it, it's just incredible. and getting your first piece out and now knowing that it was a longer piece condensed down to something as well is uh fascinating and I'm so glad we showed that as well as all because we know you for

26:14 Chronicles of Bone. Everyone knows you for Chronicles of Bone, but you know, we saw you in and we're like, "Wow, who is this guy?" Truthfully, we were like, "This guy stands out a mile. We've never heard sound like this." The Faceless Mask thing's genius, by the way, for the lip-s sync issue of Runway Act One. Truthfully, you know, knowing the constraints of the tech at the time. That really was very, very smart of you to do that as well. And it's a it's well and I was just gonna jump in and say and it's a story like why it also leans itself so perfectly for AI is because Hollywood would never make this movie in the aspect look at all the superhero movies and stuff once you cast big names they got to show their faces that's their whole thing that's why the superheroes are always taking their masks off you know and it's like kind of dumb like I'm always like man like we want to like the way we read comics they they got the masks on we want to see them in their full costume not

27:04 like costume from here down [laughter] you Um, and so like like with Echo Hunter, like when I wrote it, you know, like that was always the premise because like they they can't they can't see their faces. That's such an important element of the story because if they take their helmet off, their head explodes because they can't risk, you know, them triggering their memories and their memories coming back to them and all of that. So like it played such a, you know, it it just fit in the right space in the right world um for that for that particular story. Honestly, the time that it came out as well was just like, "Whoa, who is this? This is some next level stuff." Truthfully, on the show, we were like blown away by it. Like, we were like, "Is this the new level? Is this the new standard?" And and truthfully, Chronicles of Bone just even went, you know, the next level to all of that and was such a good propeller for all of that. What were you gonna say, Andrew? Sorry, I didn't want to

27:53 interrupt. So, there's a couple of questions that uh people's been asking. So, one of them is quite similar between Laura Weebi and Morin Kerr. And it said, "Do you use any references for the locations and cast? And also, I thought I saw a derelict church. Is there any symbolism here?" Yeah, there was a lot of symbol. Sorry, I'm I'm running on on low sleep. Uh, hence the hence the sunglasses. yeah, there was a lot of symbolism. uh uh with the church particularly back we didn't have nano or any of that stuff. So it was a lot of work, you know, like almost all of that's made in midjourney and then and you know, so like keeping characters consistency was like all

The church, the cross, and holding a location together

28:45 about like how you prompted and like you know like essentially prompting in a certain way to where midjourney would spit out the image about 90% like of like when it came to like characters the same and remember this is all like image to video. So like you're making that start frame image. It's not like how we do it now with like where we put in all of our references and then go like like every every shot you see in there started as like a first frame, you know, and then you run it through. I believe the primary model that was used in that one was Kling. Um I I can't remember which Kling it was at that point. Maybe 1.6, maybe 2.0, one of those. I think I think it's 1.6, but I can't remember. Um and uh yeah, so you know like like I remember when uh because on that one I was partnered with the

29:38 uh with Arcana when we put that out and I remember talking to one of the folks there and they were like you know what would be really cool because like it hadn't really been done like an AI for like location consistency was like having something that really stands out so you can you can tell like they're really in the same location and that's where like the the idea of like in the church like because it was always gonna take place in a church but like having that big cross um behind Raymond uh because like then it's like it you know and so that was tough because like you run it through mid journey the cross is like changing in like sizes and all that but that's where like the photography came into play because so much of my photography was uh like Photoshop like it was like you know I would shoot most of my like self-portraits like on a blank wall and then it was like like crazy compositing so Like I just did the same thing with those images. I would get the images, take them into

30:28 Photoshop and Photoshop the images, you know, same with the characters to like get them to where they looked the same in all of the images. Um, so a lot more work. Like I, you know, now I do, you know, a 20 minute Chronicles of Bone episode in about 15 to 17, sometimes 18 days. And I think Echo Hunter took me like two months. And it's like the same and it's the same length, you know, like because it was just it was so agent workflows and stuff have changed so much, haven't they? As is truly amazing. Well, I'm going to say Oh, go on. Sorry. I was just going to say I can't remember. I really can't remember, but I think it was 8 seconds or 10 or five. Whatever the maximum length was, too. So, like you were really working, you know, like stitching.

Two months then, 15 days now

31:21 Yeah. No multi-shot even really. It was nothing. It was it. It really was so different. And well, the OG's know. If you're watching, you know, you know, like Runway Gen One was a different beast compared to Yeah. It's crazy. Two years ago. Yeah. If we get time, by the way, on this first chapter one that we're going to watch, uh this we might actually watch two clips from this because this is Paul the producers's favorite episode because it's a clip of where Tinkerbell is being an absolute badass, you know. So, um his daughter and everything, you know, we're big Tinkerbell fans over here. And if you don't know, get your questions ready. We're going to watch the first clip from Chronicles of Bone episode one. We may watch back to back clips again if we only get time. Get your questions ready though, Paul. Let's check it out. You

CHRONICLES OF BONE CH.1, PART ONE

32:30 better talk to me at some point, You let him die. There was nothing we could do. We were There is no Neverland, no magic. Not without Peter. But I can still feel him. He's gone, Tinker. He's gone. I

33:24 will burn them all. Every mine. We need to get south. It's too dangerous for us here in the middle realm. How is this realm any different than the There is another king in the south. The one who pulled the blade from the stone. How is this possible? Excalibur has been stuck in the stone for over two centuries. Around the time Neverland fell is when he pulled it. That's when the true rebellion began. I spent the last 20 years

34:14 looking for Now that you're safe, we can start over. If Peter is dead, Neverland is dead. There is no magic left in this world. Only suffering. Is that a fairy I see? We're just passing through. We are no threat. That creature is not of the Mourain Just

35:09 her existence is treason. Kill them. Heat. Heat. Heat. [music] [music] we are not

36:37 your enemy. Everyone is my enemy. crazy, crazy, crazy. Tink. Yes, Tink. We got some more legends dropping into the chat. Lola, Danny, welcome everyone. I see some I see Lara. I see other people as well. How epic, man. Like by the way, some technical questions are being asked and if you didn't know, this is the Magnific original first ever series that they picked up and you've done a live stream with them answering a lot of those technical questions. So there's lots of Kavan to explore on YouTube if you've got like, you know, image to with video workflow things. You've done

Tinkerbell

37:23 so much. I don't know how you have the time for all this. It's incredible. But yeah, just to, you know, appease some of the people that are asking like, you know, quite basic questions. you've answered lots of times online. You know, you've done a lot of the uh like workflow things and that's why we're so much more interested in how you came up with these things and knowing you the person rather than the workflows and stuff. You know, personally, this thing of like ownable IP and public domain access of characters is truly genius. I said this to Uncanny Harry as well as his HP Lovecraft ideas because of the out of copyright, you know, using of stuff, but this is truly adaptable. And now that you've explained that you've written all five series for this, it is honestly so freaking awesome. And chapter one, episode one like this, as I said, is Paul's favorite episode because it's just so

38:15 badass to see the characters like this when you're not expecting it. It's so awesome that it just happens so quickly in the first episode. You're suddenly like, "Oh man, Tinkerbell is a badass now. Let's go." You know, like my son, he's four, so he's into Peter Pan and Tinkerbell. And I'm looking at him thinking, "Wait, Tinker Bell's not [laughter] version of Tinker Bell. Wait until you get a bit older. I'm going to show you the real Tinker Bell." What she's really Yeah. Yeah. She's got She's She's one of my favorite characters. She's also one of the most powerful characters in the entire Chronicles of Bone universe, and so we get I'm I'm really excited for the episode I'm working on now. Uh, we do get like a little bit of a a Tinkerbell scene. Um, kind of more explaining like where where she was, you know, the

39:05 last 20 years since the fall of Neverland. Um, and kind of setting up, you know, um, a a showdown that'll happen later down the road. Um, so you know with her and a and a particular character. So nice really really excited about that. Um, but yeah, I always I always loved the idea of you know like this fairy and and you know like that she can like adjust her size so like she can get smaller like kind of like an Ant-Man you know type character like Yeah. But when she pops out the mouth you're like oh my god it's like a rebirth of this character or something. It's like my Yeah. So, yeah, it's a lot of it's a lot of fun. And then, you know, like um a lot of the characters in Chronicles of Bone, I I made the costumes practically um like so like like I have here like this is the last

Making the costumes by hand

39:56 lost boy's mask. Um, and so, you know, like you take photos of it and then, um, and then stick it into Nano and and manipulate it to, you know, so eventually like a lot of the characters are me and then I've changed them because it's just me taking self-portraits and then, you know, sticking them in, manipulating all that. yeah, like um, my Nemo mask isn't here, but like the Nemo mask is also like a real mask, like exactly down to the detail. Um, it just I changed the colors of it. But, uh, like it it it's funny because Magnific based in Spain and the creator of that mask is in Spain and I had reached out to him and like because I was like uh cruising through Etsy and I was like, "Hey man, I'd love to use this mask." Um, you know, if I bought it, would would you be, you know, open and then so then he ended up signing over the rights for me to to use the mask and and everything

The Nemo mask, and buying the rights from a maker in Spain

40:46 and be able to copyright it? Danny had that exact question. you know, how many mole masks are in the closet for upcoming projects, knowing that they're real physical masks and like a lot. I mean, some of them, like I said, I've always said this, it's like the Temu versions of the characters because like, you know, like the collector when I made him, it was like I just went and bought a bunch of bandages from CVS and wrapped my face in bandages. Wore that black circular hat that I wore at Upscale and a yellow rain and a yellow raincoat and black gloves and then, you know, took that like photograph that so it looks really dinky. And then you take it over into Nano and you manipulate it to make it look badass. Um, and then did the same with with like Captain Hook and and Nemo, uh, Robin Hood. Um, it's funny. A lot of the characters all start with that same jacket that the last Lost Boy wears, but then I like manipulate the

41:36 colors and stuff like that because it has like this huge fur on it and everything. So, um, yeah, there's there's a lot smart use of the tech honestly. Um, and and Nano Banana changed so much, didn't it, in this transferability from like, you know, reference image to something truly badass and controllable as well. And it was a like shift from diffusion models to auto reggression, which means that it truly listened to your prompt as well. And we didn't have the extra fingers and things like this. It really made a big difference. Anyway, Paul asking if we can watch part two, because like I said, this is his favorite. Um, let's do it, Paul. Let's watch part two if we can. How

CHRONICLES OF BONE CH.1, PART TWO

42:57 you feeling? I've been better. Do you always keep the mask on? Can't be comfortable. It reminds me of what is important. You're the outlaw freeing the smaller cities across the middle realm. I've heard your name through the Robin Hood. We try to restore what the Mains have taken from us. This is my squire, Jackal. Don't

43:46 touch him. Heat. Heat. [music] Heat. [music]

45:19 Heat. What? What was that? How'd you

46:23 do that? That's dark magic. He's the last lost boy of Neverland. So, the stories are true. Neverland is real. It was. I'm sorry. Jackal means no harm. He helps us verify who we can trust. Blood magic courses through his veins. It's okay, Tink. You two are welcome to ride with us. We leave camp tomorrow. In the meantime, get your rest. Especially you. I

47:29 don't trust them. Not everyone is like the Mordane Tink. There are still good people in the Oh my god. I love I love the the the buildup, the story buildup. Um, a really good question that came in before which is is um by Jimmy 404 and he says, "Assuming Trajectory of AI continues, are you worried by season 5 that it will look totally different to season 1?" Oh, I mean, I'm not overly worried. I think that's a given. I mean, I hope so. I I I mean, like I'm hoping for eventually, you know, like indistinguishable AI where you can't tell the difference between right uh between AI and real and real footage shot on the camera because then at

Will season five look nothing like season one?

48:22 that point, I mean, you know, everyone just became Netflix and and HBO. So, [laughter] yeah, you know, I mean, like for me, at the basis of everything, it's all about story. So, you know, understanding the tech is going to change and yeah, you might go back and watch, you know, the prologue chapter and and season one. Um, and it's going to, you know, in each subsequent season will look, uh, dated, but the idea is that the story will will carry it through. Um but yeah, you know, um you know, another one of the things that I look at when when building this and and all of that is, uh I kind of liken this area to uh what happened in the music industry, you know, long time ago back in like, you know, 2009, 2010, um

Building IP the way musicians did in 2009

49:08 when musicians uh could start making their own music without studios and they would start making their own music videos and sticking it out there and blowing up and building their brand and then uh major labels, you know, they used to develop artists like unknown people. They would develop internally and then put them out and hope they would hit. And then, you know, labels eventually got to the point where they were like, why are we doing this? Why don't we just go sign these people that are already getting tens and 20 millions of views on their videos and then they'd sign them and put the machine behind them and then make them worldwide. Um, so that's what I kind of look at in this case too is like for for all of us that are creating is building up IPs that have built-in fan bases that are massive and then being able to take those to the studios um and you know essentially instead of being like hey I have a great idea let's

49:59 make it like that's never going to happen whereas opposed you go like hey I have a great idea and there's you know a diehard fan base of 20 million plus and millions of views on every YouTube upload. It's honestly incredible. Crazy thing that you said and I've said this to Chris many times. So I worked at MySpace. Remember MySpace back in the day and I was there the growth. So I was there from 2006 to about 2009. So I saw the up and and the down. So when I was there, especially at the beginning, that was exactly where we are 20 years later with you guys. You know, I was working with bands like the Arctic Monkeys. No one had heard of them, but they were just building their IP slowly, slowly, slowly until they got to the point where the rest of the industry was like, "Hold on a minute. This social media thing might be somewhere. Let's sign as many people as possible." And that's why it gets me excited about where we are with these video

What MySpace looked like from the inside

50:49 space. Cuz I'm like, I've seen this story before. I know how it's going to end. So, it's exactly what you just said there with the IPs. It's so important to do that. I love it. We've got some legends just joined in the chat, by the We got A's Alter who I know that you're doing some stuff with. We've got A is with Phantom. His new episode Red Rainbow comes out tomorrow which we watched it. We watched the last new one. His new episode comes out tomorrow. I'm so Red is my favorite show on the internet. I love it to no end. I I cannot describe my my my love for that show. Absolute legends in the chat. Sage, we've got see we see you Blacklight as well. We see everyone tuning in now. Oh man, what a crazy like thing to like think about is

51:40 that you can self-publish things with millions of YouTube things and go to big broadcasters with all of that. And we've been saying this for a long time as Andrew just said, you know, since MySpace and we've talked a lot about publishing and everything else in the last couple of years in the show. uh you're one of the ones that's really truly mastered it. Like the YouTube stuff, you've really got a diehard audience. Like you said, this is so much like power you're taking now to other people when you're looking for further publishing is you have so much more power because you have an audience already ready for this, you know, like it's um it's truly like if you guys didn't know, that is episode one that we've just been watching there and it stands up so well. And you've got episode four coming out very soon. And episode three dropped last week. Is that the sort of timeline? Dropped

52:31 or two weeks? Three weeks ago today. Um, so uh, episode 4 comes out August 4th. So the way Chronicles of Bone releases is it's the first Tuesday of every month. So um, and then season one will have eight episodes and then every subsequent season will have 10. Um, And so, uh, yeah, like really excited. Um, as I was mentioning to you guys before we started the live stream, this this episode has been the most challenging thing I've ever made in my life. Uh, you know, like essentially it's called Battle of the Bay. It picks up right where episode three ends with Varek arriving, you know, to the bay and Nemo is there with his army. So, we see the battle between the Mordanes

The hardest episode he's ever made

53:22 and Nemo's army um on the bay, and it is, you know, just pure insanity and and and you know, having hundreds of background characters fighting while you're following your main characters was was such a a thing. And then on top of that, not to get overly emotional, but just for people that don't know, because I rarely share much about my personal life through this whole month, my grandfather passed away. So then like had to go to my hometown for his funeral and stuff. And then while I was there, my uh one of I have two cats. One of my cats uh started bleeding from its nose and and having all these issues. Uh I was in the the hospital last night until 3 in the morning. Uh and yeah, of course. and then waiting, you know, to hear back um ideally in the next hour

What this month has actually been like

54:14 or two, you know, about how he's doing. But it's like and then, you know, while all may all the while, you know, life happens, you have to like still hit your deadlines and get your work done. So, it's just like uh there is, you know, I always say this, but like, you know, if uh if if [laughter] you want it and you want to go hard, like there's there's no no excuses at the end of the day. You just have to push through it and grind. And you know, some months are are magic and and everything's coming up, you know, roses and and awesome. And then there's some months where it's like just gravel is being dumped on you. You still gota you still got to push through. So, uh, you know, life honestly, thank you so much for sharing that. Honestly, I didn't know if you wanted to mention any of the personal stuff that we talked in in the green room obviously and it's so honestly whenever us Europeans talk about you

55:05 as as a creator that like openness and just being the most nice and friendly person is one of the most first discussed things. And so it's really honestly amazing that you're willing to share those things with other creators that are going through the es and flows as I know because I talk to them privately and they tell me as such you know es and flows. They're out there struggling anxiety this and that. Are they going to get publishing? Are they not? Are they this? Everyone's going through the same sorts of things and personal problems and some are new dads and some of this and so much is going on in people's lives. So yeah, life life doesn't stop, you know, doesn't stop, but I think it's important, you know, like like I said, I I usually reserve my like social media and everything just to talk about like my work and projects and things like that. don't really dive much into my personal

55:55 life but um I think it's at times like beneficial to share you know like so people under like understand because like I think it's easy on social media to look at other people and if they're doing well and you're just like oh man their life must you know everything in their life must just be perfect and it's like that's not the case for anybody like everybody so many looks up to you honestly like I said you are on like the real top of the game that everyone looks up to you so to share those personal stories as well is really it's so humanizing for everyone that really like as you said some of your audience are more interested in your content but I love to know the person behind it and that's what our you know we're all the same sort of people making stuff as well and uh I think so yeah Dan in the chat just made a really good point he said life is the difference between us creators and AI 100%

56:47 um you know my you know uh my quad in chat they don't overly have feelings though I did get in an argument one time with my chat. Really funny. Uh we I was trying to to make like so I use chat a lot of times to help me with my music prompts in Suno. Um and so like I'm breaking it down and I was really so there was and a lot of times like if I put in like three or four reference tracks, you know, of like, hey, I want it to be like a mix of this, this, this, this, like help me figure that out. And then it breaks down the instrumentation, then I end up deleting, you know, instruments that I don't want or any of this. So, in this episode that I was on, I really wanted to make a track in the vibe and the essence of Vegeta's sacrifice. If anyone's familiar with that track, it's so dope. And uh my chat, his name is Gordy. I was like, Gordy, you know, like showing this. And he was like, he was like, I

Arguing with ChatGPT about copyright

57:38 can't do that. That goes against copyright. Never had him say this to you before. And I was like I was like, bro, I'm not trying to make the track exactly. I was like, I just want the vibe. And he was like, I still can't do that. I'm going back and forth. I was like, okay. I was like, "I just want like these instruments in a different melody. Doesn't that be the same?" And he was like, "Well," and then like going back and I was like, I was like, "Bro," I was like, "They don't own the instrument. They don't have the instrument copywritten." I was like, "Just tell me what the instrument is." Like I was trying to get one specific instrument and going back and forth and then finally he was like, "Yeah, you're right." And so after like an hourong conversation, we finally [laughter] spit out the the goods, but it was like twisting an arm. [clears throat] And I was like, "Okay, we've all been there. We've all been I think we've all been there as well. The amount of swearing I I say to my my models, [laughter] I call it everything. I always try to be really nice just in case of we don't

58:27 know where the future's going to go. Exactly. Yeah. [laughter] You don't know when they're going to take over. [clears throat] Yeah. But in this case, I was a little annoyed. So, I was like I was just more calling him out on his on his [__] I was like, "Come [laughter] on, bro." I was like, "They don't Come on, bro." I was like, "They don't I literally would say that." I was like, "Bro." Like, literally, I'd be like, "Bro, dot [laughter] dot dot." I was like, they don't own the copyright on themselves. Oh, mate, that is where are we that this is our experience? We all have this personal assistant that we talk to and weird. It's crazy, isn't it? And the agent and the sea dance 2.5 that's coming next and who knows where we're going with all of this honestly. And as you said, if it does get into the like totally can't tell the difference between real life camera and AI stuff, I mean, this is the trajectory that it feels like we're on, but maybe it will never truly get there. Again, we never really know,

59:18 but the capabilities even right now to make stuff are just insane. Like, it's really, really incredible. Anyway, we've got Chronicles of Bone chapter 3, which you mentioned, and we're going to watch the uh clips from that, but we also have Last Recall, and I know I, you know, I don't want to, you know, skew up uh time or anything like that because I know that we've got a lot of questions and stuff coming in as well. Which one did you want to watch first? Did you want to go to Last Recall or go to Chronicles of Bone chapter 3? Oh, let's do Last Recall. Yeah, we can do it in the order because Last Recall came out before uh chapter 3. Oh, exactly. Right. There you go. And um so a year after a catastrophic event devastates the isolated town of Harlow, Virginia, two federal agents use an experimental memory recovery technology to investigate what happened.

LAST RECALL

1:00:09 As they relive the final memories of the survivors, a chilling truth emerges, one that defies logic, threatens their sanity, and suggests that the horror consumed in Harlow may not be over. So, let's check it out. Paul Thanks

1:01:22 again, Roger. [music] Hey, Charles. How's the day going? Oh my god. Oh my god. [music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [music] We

1:03:13 all know what happened in Hollow last More than half the population was killed. By the time law enforcement got there, anyone who was still well, whatever that was, they had to be put So, what does this have to do with us? Once the town was contained and REU was sent in. What you just saw, those are only a handful of the recall tapes pulled from the survivors. Most of the department doesn't believe we will get the real answer. The case is still active upstairs, but for us, it's going cold. There's just one issue. We thought we had every survivor accounted for, but

1:04:05 analytics flagged an irregularity. There are three individuals from that day who have not been recalled. Their recalls will most likely show what we have here. But we can't move this case over until we have them. You have warrants for two. The other's a minor. We need at least the two we have warrants for to officially move this Cole or I haven't had anything to do with this case. Why are we getting stuck with this [__] You both are coming off the memory man which, you know, I know was not easy on

1:04:51 either of you. I figured some cleanup duty was a good way to ease you back in. You've been pretty quiet over there, I wouldn't mind a little company on this We

1:05:44 are going to make these people relive the worst moment of their lives. Yeah. Never gets easy. You ever done recall before? Like at memories for you? I don't have any memories worth I call [__] Everybody got a memory they would love to experience again. I take it you've done it. I go about once a year. Honestly, all I can afford on our salary. Shit's But in our line of work, we don't really create many

1:06:34 good new ones. And I got a couple of gems from back in my university days. I'm sure you do. Wow. I absolutely love the writing in that one and the micro expressions, as Lola pointed out, are really next level in that piece as well. A question that Paul actually had on this one is that the writing is so good. Do you have like YouTube algorithms in mind or anything like that? Or are you completely free of all of that when you're like making a piece like this? You know, like are you just writing it

Writing without the algorithm in mind

1:07:22 as good a piece as you can make it? Or are you thinking, "Oh, I know how to reach another 100,000 people on YouTube if I write a certain way or is that are you completely free of that Oh, yeah. I'm fully free of that thinking. I just write the story. Write the story. I mean, to be honest, this was uh a very risky writing element because uh very different piece. Yeah. Well, not just in that, but like to start out a scene that violent. Um Usually you can get flagged on YouTube. So, I was like really nervous that I was going to get flagged. Of all all the socials, LinkedIn was the one that flagged me. They they they blocked it out like three hours. Yeah. they grade it out because [laughter] for violence. Um, so, you know, you always have to be uh a little careful with that, but it was so intrical

1:08:13 to the story that it starts out like that we see what happens to Harlo because that's like essentially what kicks off the whole story. So, like I was like, well, you know, I can't change it. It has to start this way. Um, so yeah, it was, you know, and I had had this idea also for such a long time. I mean, I I wrote the idea for for the uh Wonder Studios Beyond the Loop season 2, but like I had the idea. So, I have like a journal where I just like like a old school where you actually write with your hand journal. And uh what I wrote all I wrote was what if you could relive memories for the first like and what if you could relive memories as if experiencing them for the first time. Wow. And so then that kind of like kickstarted like because I actually made a project and I made a little subtle nod to it called memory man back in the like runway gen two days when like things barely

The journal line that started it

1:09:04 moved you know and uh it took place in present day. So I changed a lot of things but like the the premise is still there and if you notice like the tech is even similar and all that but uh the idea behind it was you know what if there was this drug where people could go relive memories and like it's like you're experiencing them as if you know living them for the first time and it became like a publicly available drug no different than like you know alcohol or weed or any of these kind of things. And so people would go and and do this drug and maybe there's like you know lost loved one or you have some crazy memory from your past that was so amazing and you want to go relive it. So, you know, there's this like kind of government-run um place that uh that's called Memories for You that you'd go pay and and do this. But then naturally, my brain was like, "Well, how would the government use this?" And I was like, "They would for sure use it in a police line of work and make people relive the worst

1:09:55 memories of their lives to to break down like cases because like, you know, imagine there's like a murder and you have a witness, you know, like witness accounts aren't very good. um they can change like what someone's wearing, what they looked like, but now what if you could see it? And so that was the idea. So then, but they have to like live it as if they're experiencing it for the first time all over again. So they have to go through this traumatic experience. And so that's where the the recall evidence unit comes into play is, you know, and that they go and and they're going and investigating this crime and and they make people relive these memories so they can, you know, dig through and uncover more of the truth. Wow. This is one of my favorite ones you've ever made or not even you just I've seen in AI. I remember we watched this a few weeks ago and I was thinking yes we did. Yeah. This is the type of one that I could show to somebody and

1:10:44 they could just watch it and then afterwards I say did you know that was AI and they'll probably think oh yeah the zombies and stuff and I'll say no the whole thing they'll be like what? Like it was it was that good. Even little things like when the woman's running just before she gets hit by the the the truck, the white truck, like her her shoulder muscles at the back was the way it was moving like in real life. Like little things like that. The detail he notices all the details. I'm notic like all of the little every detail. Yeah. And the pacing as Lola says as well. One thing that you said like you said you was worried that it would get um well and LinkedIn stopped it because of the violence at the beginning. Uh, Jimmy said, "If you were working on a dark piece all day, what is your go-to for just chill and deescalation?" Um, it's so funny. I'm I'm a weird individual. So, [laughter] uh

What he watches to switch off

1:11:36 um usually after I work, um I don't normally I mean like sometimes I'll watch like lighter things because I really love like to you know go back on like the old rundowns of like you know the office and and shows like that but but a lot of times like I end up watching like true crime [laughter] I don't know why but it always seems like the narrator's voice is so peaceful it helps me fall asleep. Um uh but right but right now uh doing a Sopranos So that's that's been a lot of fun. You know that show is so I mean it's crazy that that show started in 99 and it's still smokes like so once once finish the Sopranos is going to do the the wire. So like kind of going back to like that true golden age of television like when you know we evolved from like the biggest thing on TV was sitcoms to like you know those were the shows that inspired me

1:12:28 where when I was you know growing up and wanting to be a filmmaker uh it was always movies had to be movies and then it was shows like Sopranos uh The Wire Oz like those really early HBO shows where it suddenly you were like holy [__] like you can do epic storytelling in like TV format and it's like almost to me I was like this is better than movies because you can go like so much further with the characters and the lore and the story. So then I became obsessed and then we just saw that explode you know like um like early days of Netflix when they did like Orange is the New Black and House of Cards and all those kind of shows and then and then you know HBO had always reigned supreme and they still do for the most part you know for so long on those kind of shows. Um, so yeah, like you know, I think what what we do at

1:13:19 Phantom, you know, that's what we're trying to build in the AI space is with all of our artists, you know, from myself to Mike to Sav to Ace to Rafa is like making, you know, like a certain level of of quality that, you know, like if you if it's if it's got the Phantom X logo on it, uh, you know that it's it's going to be like at a certain caliber of of of quality and a really good show. great to go back and look at the things that have lasted time as well, you know, like Sopranos, as you said, it's unbelievable when it was started to be filmed, considering how much it holds up now and stuff like that. It's really something like to go back and aspire to. I guess it's uh amazing. We got some uh yeah, some cool comments coming in. By the way, I said earlier in the show, we're going to be doing them at the end of the show. We're almost there, by the way. We're at like we're

1:14:10 an hour and 15 minutes in already. It's a 90-minute show for these uh creator sessions and thank you so much as you said earlier with your personal story of like being up and at the hospital and all of the stuff that you're going through to join us today. Really appreciate it, man. Um we've got uh as you said, we have chapter three now. um where we've got a clip from chapter 3 and you've got chapter 4 as you said the hardest thing that you're working on at the moment. There's some questions around that about concurrent projects and stuff. It's it's insane what you are able to do with that piece coming out in between episodes of Chronicles of Bone. It's just like, oh my god, dude. Like, you're bringing so much of your like diary that you scribbled down in your head and your premises to life over time. And it's honestly

1:15:03 so good that the tech has caught up to where you needed it to be to make these things happen. Truthfully, it's I'm very happy that you're the one using these tools and you're the one, you know, getting this attention because those things that you wrote down, those premises, I talked to stand-up comedians. I talked to all sorts. The same exact is true, you know, they write down a really interesting premise and over time it flourishes and then they bring it into life over time to create something epic, you know. So, it's the same trajectory really with a lot of creative. So, uh it's really cool to hear that as well that you actually do have a physical diary that you actually write in. I think Paul does as well, the producer, still uses an A2 poster and stuff and sketches out like website designs and does it old school way with marker pens and stuff. you know, we're all like 40, so that's the things that we grew up on, you know, moles skins and whatever and whatever it

1:15:54 was that you grew up on. Andrew loves his voice apps and stuff and, you know, we we've all got our ways of just like jotting down stuff that becomes epic over time and this is the series, you know, Chronicles of Own is the epic thing in AI. Like most people when they talk about AI, they talk about this. They truthfully do. It's like so big on YouTube and mo so many people have like Lara and others have come in and found you through the show and then gone and watched the whole thing, you know. So, the anticipation and the audience that you're building is truly incredible to see it and it's it's really like amazing for people thinking about self-publishing in YouTube and and this new world that we live in is really like a case study to be beholdened with. It's amazing. With all of that said, we're going to follow up from chapter 2. You should go watch chapter 2. Obviously, we're not going to get time for

CHRONICLES OF BONE CH.3

1:16:45 it in this show. We've gone straight from chapter 1 and we're going to go straight to chapter 3. Now, following from the events in chapter 2, the collector is driven by a single mission. Allout war against the Mordane Empire. As Robin Hood prepares Jackal for the road ahead, Captain Hook arrives at Dead Man's Bay, unaware that a nightmare awaits beneath the surface. Let's check it out. [music] Heat. Heat. [music] You just missed that last one.

1:18:15 Doesn't matter. You said I could go on the next You promised. Did I say that? The boy's been hurling daggers and launching arrows long before the sunrise. At this rate, he'll either become a legend or accidentally pin Little John to the rocks. I'm ready. I've done everything you've asked of me. Every lesson, every chore. I've trained day and night for this. I'm tired of always having to stay behind with Little John. Little John can't be that bad. You haven't given up on bathing again, have you? I admit he can be a bit dull. As much as you lot enjoy making me the

1:19:07 butt of the joke, the boy's right. He's earned it. He's ready. Besides, I'd much rather be swinging my hammer into someone's face than So, by the authority vested in me by absolutely no one, I pronounce the boy a a tiny man. War isn't one with a bow

1:19:53 or a blade. It's one here. Your mind will decide the battle long before your hands ever do. The moment you step onto a battlefield, death walks beside you. Fear it and it will rule every choice you make. A warrior doesn't survive because he's He survives because he's made peace with what may come. You'll be ready sooner than later. That I promise. Besides, you can't have any misses, so run it again. The

1:20:53 boy is desperate. I know. So was I. But you never mistook my impatience for And what of our new friends? How are they settling in? Well, the one eats like he's never had food before. and the fairy. I'm pretty sure she wants to kill the Keep an eye on her, will you? love

Why the British accents

1:21:55 that. a question that's um came up earlier and something that I I've been thinking because it's not just your uh stuff, it's others as well. Why the British accents? Oh, well, for for me and the British accents, it's because of kind of where a lot of these characters originated from, you know. So, so that's you wanted to keep that in mind with with the Yeah. Like, you know, like even though I'm readapting and all that, still kind of like want to pull from that those elements and stuff like that. So, really Yeah. So um but like as we noticed like you know Nemo he doesn't um he has like kind of like his it's like a like an Indian English accent um you know because like where he's from and like you know we uh we do finally you know spoiler alert we see Nemo unmasked in the next uh episode. So u we actually get to see what he looks like underneath the mask. Um but

1:22:46 but yeah it's uh you know it's a lot of fun. And then you know there's there's obviously more characters to come. Um not not right now. Uh but season two, you know, we're we're pretty much capped out because I think I'm already at like 30 30 something characters right now that bouncing around between. But uh but yeah, you know, it's going to be it's going to be fun. And then, you know, hopefully as the tools continue to advance, uh my dream is that, you know, I'll eventually be able to get these episodes up to like 30 35 minutes by season two. Wow. Great questions coming in. Thank you so much for leaving them during the episode, guys. By the way, Miriam, you're one of our long-term listeners. So, good. And a great question about color grading. What is your color grading experience with AI clips since it's so different working on log footage? It feels like looking at this, you take great care with post-production in color grading. Yeah.

Colour grading AI footage

1:23:38 Um, you know, so naturally, a lot of your shots are already to a degree graded when you're generating. Um, so the the when I when I color grade, I I usually go into Da Vinci, but it's not like some crazy amount, you know? It's usually messing with the the temperature and the tint, uh the contrast, the shadows, the highlights, and then uh like just a little bit minute details on like specific colors to make certain colors pop more than others, but you know, it's it's a fairly light. I mean, it's still like a grade. It's a It's a huge difference between what it looks like and after, but it's not like how you'd grade traditional footage when it's like log, you know, like there's there's such a more intense grade there. Um, and you know, I do hope one day we'll get to where AI is a true log because like you can generate in

1:24:28 log, but it's not log, you know, like it'll look like log, but it doesn't actually have the color data in there that like actual log footage has. Um, so like I would love to eventually when they when they get to that point in AI like it actually has all of those those color data points so then you can really mess with it and stuff. But um, but yeah, that's that's that's the So Michael, he kind of follows up that question where he says, "First off, thank you for sharing what's going on in your personal life while you're bagging out this amazing work. And do you have a workflow you care to share with new creators struggling to get to this level of consistency? Um, I mean [sighs] I don't it's nothing, you know, overly crazy. I mean, you know, always make your character like, you know, before I start anything, you have all your character

The consistency workflow

1:25:19 refs. Um like in this uh new episode you'll see um even in this last episode you see like the you know how you how you change your character ref as what they go through you know like when Hook's ship gets blown up he goes from being dry to then he's wet you know like it's just like adding those little details so like you know those are pretty simple things you just take the character sheet pop it back in and then you're like hey you know I just pop it back into Magnific and using Nano or now like Seedream honestly the new one is Yeah. Yeah. And you just be like, you know, show me show me image one exactly, but make the character wet, you know, like things like that, you know, like Right. And and so like I I just can't but this one I would say has the most changes of characters like of the same character kind of throughout the episode because it's a battle. So we see them incur damage and

1:26:10 things like that. So, um, and, uh, yeah, and so that and then locations, you know, make sure to get all angles of your location. So, you know, you know, looking this way, looking that way, looking this way, looking that way, because then I put those refs in based off of the way the camera is with the character. And so that way, you know, like you're removing any interpretation from from u from Seedance and making mistakes. So, if it always has the ref, you know, it's going to make sure that like it stays consistent. Um, and to get that, you know, there's a multitude of ways. Uh, it's a little bit harder in uh Nano, it's not quite there yet when it's like, you know, rotate the camera. Like, sometimes I get it and you describe it, but sometimes it does some weird like hallucination of like what I've described plus the original image kind of like molded into one. So, like yeah, one

1:27:01 of my favorite things is to like, you know, use like Seedance in 4K. Um, and you know, if you don't want to be spending those kind of credits, just just do it for your locations, then you can go back down to 1080 or 720 for your actual gens, but you need it to be 4K of like you drop your location looking one way and then, you know, like I'll say like slow, you know, 360 drone shot that's slowly moving. So then it goes in and then it like slowly rotates around and it builds the scene for you. And then you can take screen grabs of all of those and then pop those back into like Seedream. Well, I would say nano because Seedream's still at two at 2K. So then do it in nano at 4K and just be like, hey, like keep everything about this the same. Just upscale, improve the details and things like that. And then, you know, you get your images and then, you know, now you have all the angles um of your of your location and

1:27:52 then totally, you know, really good technical thing to do now that we can do it, you know, like and there's a really good top tip on that as well, actually. I mean that's like one of the things that's like why I was just like why why did Seedance 2.5 have to take so long because I really could have used it on this episode because you know you only get like what nine or 10 reps and like I've [snorts] m every every gen I'm doing right now is maxed like maxed out on the reps and like you know knowing that 2.5 is coming with 50 reps I'm just like I need it so bad. We're all so curious about it but you specifically need it more than others. Another question that came in by the way. Oh, sorry. Go on. I was just going to say because I like to like have like even the props having their own refs, you know, so like then it really those details and stuff like Um, so yeah, high-res

Needing 50 references

1:28:43 upscale props would be nice. Imagine if we can get 50 that will be truly amazing. 30 second gen. My biggest question is is that mean 30 second of audio reference input as well? You know, does that go hand inhand with output and input? It would be great, wouldn't it? Like with seed audio as well, you can make really incredible dialogue that you can upload of longer than this. So, but another great question that came in about the audio was with the sound design on Echo Hunter, is it actually the traditional route or the AI route or any specific details you can give about the sound that you use throughout everything would be really great Yeah. So, Echo Hunter is true traditional. I mean, because that's back when AI footage didn't generate with sound. So like I had to make everything. Uh that's why it was such a laborous process because like you had to like build all of those sound effects and you know like a lot of that's like through um

Sound design then versus now

1:29:35 you know like I have a large sound effect library and then also using sites like art list and things like that and then like you know like kit bashing like essentially you know you're layering multiple sounds to create a sound. Um so like there's a lot of elements that go into that. Now with Seedance, you know, a lot of the sound design is is AI like um but what you can do in Seedance is you can prompt for specific sounds, you know, like you can you can describe just like how you're describing the visual, you can describe the sound and and then get the sound out of it. Um I mean there's still times where uh it's it's it's a lot less though than it used to be. um which you know also helps make the process go faster because sea dance does really really good sound you know and so um but there's times where it misses on something or like for instance I was just doing one uh

1:30:27 yesterday and like had one of my characters scream and for whatever reason he kept giving him a demon like and I was like yo I was [laughter] like this dude isn't a demon he's a regular and so you know then like in my prompt like hilarious I'm screams. He's a regular man. [laughter] Yeah, that's hilarious. Do you know what I'm By the way, we're out of time and I know that you had a you know a very you know you may have a hard stop or anything like that. There's other questions and and coming in, but if you need to go, you need to go. I I got I got time. Oh, you're the best, man. Um thank you. You know, you know, uncounting Harry's tip to us on his first episode is if you put a mustache on your character, then you get a different accent when you ask for English and stuff like this, which is hilarious that that's true. And he was like trying to wrestle

1:31:17 away from certain typical English accents you'd get through Seedance. And so adding a mustache to a character and then editing this out in post was how he was controlling accents. And it's crazy what people are doing like in terms of like hacking in audio to this multimodal seed dance thing. Imagine if like um seed 1.0 is built into seed uh Seedance 3 because that is truly a multimodal audio tool that's separate right now. Um, but if it's baked in kind of like an LLM to C Seedance 3, this will make a truly interesting experience where you can generate up to like 4 minutes of audio and then apply visuals in like a timeline DAW type way that you know me and Andrew and other sort of audio files have known this life for a long time. you know, whether you do Ableton, Reason, ProTools,

1:32:08 Logic, any of those DAWs, you know, it's uh they're just there, you know, and you could build workflows this way. Audio first and it could be really interesting times. I'm really excited about all of the audio stuff. Like clearly I just geek out about it all. But as you said, and I made you this hat, you know, 90% of a film is the audio. And I it's one of the best quotes honestly ever, man. It's for real. So true. And as we pointed out in previous episodes, just change the dynamic of a scene by just changing the audio and it will flip. You can have like a nice scene with dark music and it flips. The whole tone, the whole everything just flips. And the opposite is true as well. You know, you have dark scene with a Barbie song and it's going to flip. And it's like, it's crazy how that happens. But anyway, it's like, you know, like they've got the videos on YouTube where people have taken The

1:32:59 Shining trailer and and recut it to like happy music and they make it like a sitcom and it and it totally feels that way like Yeah. completely Or I saw one where they took like Ross from Friends and they like made him into like a serial killer and it's [laughter and clears throat] like once they added the music and stuff in the edits, I was like, "Yo, this is so true." like the vibe, [laughter] the framing of music is unbelievable, isn't it? The tone of things and everything, it's unreal. Um, there's a few questions, some more technical questions that people are asking, but just to let you know, Kavan's done a interview already with Magnific. So what we'll do is we'll put in the chat the link to that so you can kind of more of a breakdown just because we're coming to the end of the show and there's so many other questions but anything technical obviously we'll answer some technical questions but

1:33:50 anything too technical um you'll be able to see you'll be able to see that. So we'll put a link in the chat uh for you right now because I know Ragaf uh you've mentioned a few times certain questions. Yeah, behind the scene walkthroughs. Like I said, it's prolific. It's unbelievable how prolific you are, man. And making shows in between Chronicles of Bone, also doing breakdowns and stuff in your partnerships and your agreements. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy, though. And I'm so sorry that you're going through what you're going through right now. And you know, the silver lining is coming right on the other side of this. And uh it's awesome to see the success that you've had. and we've been following you since the start. When you brought up that piece before, I was like, "Oh my god, I even remember that piece before Echo Hunter." I was like, I've literally seen your very first video [laughter] and it's uh it's very

1:34:41 awesome that you've come onto the show at this time honestly on our creator sessions when you've got so much to watch now. It's like truly amazing that you've got so much content that you've made solo as well. Like a question that came from the audience was from Danny actually. Are you ever tempted to work with a bigger team for Chronicles of Bone to help the production in any way or do you feel like handing that off is going to add more to your palette and stuff like that? Like would you ever entrust anyone uh to to bring that level of stuff for the rest of the five seasons you've got already written? Uh yeah, I mean like it's something I mean I've already been considering it not necessarily on the show yet, but like like reaching out to artists um because I I I've been talking about making this book for the longest time of like kind of like a who's who

Would he ever bring on a team?

1:35:32 and Chronicles of Bone just like bios and all of that and and like you know like the world map and and just like just to like if you're a fan of the show to like have a lot of context into into characters because it's a lot of characters to follow. Um H, [clears throat] but it's just like I don't have the time, you know, like to like build out those assets like because I want like really dope character images for each one of them and stuff like that. So, I've been like, you know, wanting to to reach out to the community and be like, you know, who who's down it'd be mostly still, you know, because it's a book, so it'll be still image work, but like taking the character and just making some badass imagery and and and being able to build out this book. Um but yeah, I think later, you know, as as projects continue to develop and everything and you know, because like at Phantom, you know, we have deals with with major studios uh that we

1:36:23 can't talk about too much and all that and then as those things start to take shape, you know, uh you know, there's unfortunately there is just so much time in a day. Um and I wish I wish I could have more. Um I always say that the biggest enemy is time. like that's the only enemy the true enemy in my life. Um and so yeah, I think you know because no matter what like I won't ever stop Chronicles. So like you know whatever it gets to to that that point. Um but it's such a a project that like comes from like my heart and my soul. Yes, of course. Yeah. I really want to like make sure that it's done to like, you know, to like the very specific way. Like there's so many insanely talented people out there that I have no doubt people could come in and honestly probably smoke the visuals that I'm making. Um, but I think for

1:37:13 me it's like pacing and and story and and you know, like I'm I'm so particular about like which video gen gets picked, you know, and all of that. But but yeah, no, I mean like, you know, we work with with teams um like on our commercial side, you know, at Phantom, like we we always are are working with, you know, multitude of artists and things like that. And um you know, the other thing you've unfortunately got to make time for, as Jimmy's pointing out, is you've got to open up a Halloween mask store because people just want to give you their money. us included, you know, like a store, opening a store, you know, like um the alternate is Patreon or something, you know, like uh I don't know, but like yeah, you need to gify and make this like, you know, collector's mask Halloween exclusive I am so Oh, you've got a call. Yes, of course. Of course. Yeah,

1:38:05 of course. Everything is okay. I'm just going to jump off camera real Yes, of course. We hope everything's Thank you. Yes, of course. Oh my gosh. Yes. Oh, thank you so much for joining us, Kavan the Kids. Kavan, it's been a hell of an episode. Based in LA, I think. Yes. He's based in LA as he's Yeah. Wow. some really the most anticipated guest I think truthfully in terms of how much we've watched on the show, you know, like um we've just it's been incredible to follow the journey and the short stories he's shared and we're so thankful for him joining us at that time in the morning and everything like that. It's uh exactly.

1:38:53 It's very early in the morning for him and uh yeah, very open to to um what he's been saying. Hopefully everyone in the chat you got some nuggets there from consistent characters to how he does certain things to his inspiration even to where he goes to chill and that is to watch the sopranos and the wire. [laughter] So that was I thought that was very funny as well. Man, he's just so nice, isn't he? And like my gosh, it's like how does one man produce all of this? It's really truly inspiring to see it like just growing millions of YouTube, you know, subscribers and like all of the views and everything that he's done with Chronicles of Bone, but the side quests as well and all of the other stuff that he's doing, getting actors involved and really batting above, you know, what's ever been achievable with a oneperson output.

1:39:44 Let's be honest, it's truly insane times. And I loved your MySpace story, mate. truly, you know, it is feeling like those MySpace era days for the new AI era. It's something new and everyone's talking publishing at the moment, you know, which Kavan is doing incredibly well at and it's just truly inspiring to see it at that level. No, definitely. I think that as I was saying it's there's so many things go in circles and seeing [music] what's happening in this space right now with the creativity the IPS you're building your own worlds ch completely disrupting an industry where the industry still want to stay relevant and they're saying how do we stay relevant either we build it ourselves which can take too long or acquisitions and what happened literally 20 years ago when I

1:40:34 was at MySpace It's happening again now. You know, it's almost the exact same thing. It's the only thing that's changed is that it's gone from music now to AI [music] films. But people like Kavan, he's going to be a very, very rich man very, very soon. In fact, all of the people, the uncanny Harry's, all of the people um that we're seeing now, and hopefully some of you in the chat, now's the time to get on it, you know, because people are going to time to double down on original IP as Sage says in the comments. And um Jimmy says, "I don't I just love it when people don't wait. They do." And it feels like that time. If you pull the trigger right now, you get ahead of the curve. If you don't, then you're going to behind. It's It's true that at this current moment, one of my favorite sayings is Jay-Z in a song called What More Can I Say? And he goes, "I'm far from a Harvard student. I just had the [music] balls to

1:41:26 do it." And I just feel that you didn't you don't need to go Harvard. Sometimes you just need to take action. And I really feel that's the what's happening here and what some of the things that you've told me, some of the things that Cavin's told me. In fact, all of the creators, they all kind of follow a similar path and that is, you know, what now's the time. Let's put some stuff out there and uh yeah, let's see what happens. Thank you very much, Lawrence saying, "Great show, guys. Well done." And thank you again to Kavan and Paul the producer in the background. Uh here's a link to Kavan's YouTube if you haven't seen it. I don't know how you haven't. Honestly, it's literally one of the biggest in YouTube. [music] But go check it out. As uh Andrew said earlier, there was also a Magnific [music] project as well. Um so lots and lots of links for Kavan all over. Just look up Kavan the good wherever you are in socials, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube,

1:42:18 everywhere. Shout out to the producer Paul. Lola giving shout out to producer Paul. Really, really good work. uh creator episode three and we'll be back again announcing more about who's in the latest in this series. Um back with the regular show as well. I'm going to be in London uh in the next few days. So if you're in London, give me a shout. I know that I'll be meeting up with Jimmy and a few other people, but doing a Lisbon law takeover, hosting the event down in London on Thursday. Where are you next, mate? I am staying exactly where I am. I've no plans to to to leave. um think touch wood I don't have to uh so now it's just pretty much just getting getting on top of things you know it's just catching up on a whole bunch of I've had a very busy June and May June and July so now August the

1:43:09 plan is to um [music] have as much relaxation as possible that you can have with a 4-year-old who's just a typical boy so we'll see what happens there right typical boys I know one of them Hugo as well Paul as well is uh Uh yeah, stay up tod date as Paul's putting onto the screen. If you want to subscribe to our newsletter, but also for all future events, go sign up on the luma.com/theai live show. You'll get a newsletter for the regular show about the pieces we're featuring and announcements of special guests in the future. Some cool ones that I want to let you know about soon, Andrew, that I've uh already had a chat with about August and stuff like that. Um, so just confirming a few last things before we announce it publicly and officially, but some cool names and you guys let us know as well who you think deserves to be on this series. Yeah. What

1:43:59 a start. Yeah. Who what what artists, what designers, what producers do you want us to interview and we'll [music] do our best to bring them to the show. You know, the show is about you guys as much as it is about us and the artists. So, please let us know. Absolutely. Uh with all that being said, let's uh see you guys in the future. Look out for on that Luma link future announcements. It may be on a different day creator sessions obviously with special guests. We do it whenever they're available. It might be a Monday, it might be a Wednesday, but just look out for it. [music] Different day than the regular show, which is always on a Tuesday, whenever it can be. We'll stick to the Tuesday slot. Miriam, you're the best. See you on Thursday. Oh, I can't wait. It's been too long. I get to see Ro. I get to see. I get to see Kareem. I get to see so many legends on Thursday.

1:44:51 Mate, I'm so sad you're not in London. Yeah, I know. But in London, Lawrence, the Fortnite Fix will probably come back September, October. If you don't know the Fortnitely fix, it is um basically every other week I'll go live, but it's just a trading session. This is slightly outside of videos. This might be how you want to use the large language models, how you want to produce. So I've been doing that and that's connected to do with the other podcast that um I do. Now just to let you know as well myself and Chris we started the in a nutshell podcast which is the 10 minute daily. Tomorrow [music] 700th episode you know 700th episode. This this show here's been going three years. We've been in it for a long time. Yes. That's crazy you continued that mate and got it to that many episodes. It was a 10-minute idea that we had, you know, just to make instead of avoid because we would talk about this, remember, we would just talk about it and we're like, why don't we record this?

1:45:43 Why don't we just do 10-minute recordings of like whatever the news is in that day and it was a smart idea to do that and it's still going and also show as well. So, again, some really [music] cool shows that we've got going part of our little ecosystem. So, thank you so much for everyone in the chat for making it happen. Yeah, you guys are the best.