Transcript: Phil Langer: Icarus Rising, Slophunters and AI Films With No Start Frames

Phil's first Creator Session

0:05 [music] And we are back back live again. You may have seen us just yesterday. Um if not [music] then uh we're here for a special creator session and Andrew is back in the building. [music] We had Chris first join us uh last minute yesterday, Andrew, as the co-host for you and he made a lot of like audio and music things without even realizing that's sort of the thing that we talk about every week, you know, on the show these days. So, that was really cool to see. Um, definitely check that out. Yes. Yes, exactly. We're live on YouTube, live on LinkedIn, live on X. Catch us wherever you get good streams from. And uh yeah, we've got a special creator session here with Phil Langanger, who's been on the show many times

0:57 um through the regular show on Tuesday. We've watched his pieces, but this is his first time appearing on the show as a creator session. Welcome to the show, Phil. Thanks so much for having me. Super excited. What you guys Super excited to have you here, too. Yeah. And uh thank you so much for tuning in as well. And we first got your um like content in my feed uh as I was just saying to you in the green room when I saw your hybrid animals project and it was something that I really really got drawn to. Was this um when did you do that? Was that a year ago or two years ago now? Yeah, ages ago like in the eye world. Yeah, I think like it came it started with like I think mid Journey version 4 came out. That's kind of

How the Hybrid Portraits started in Midjourney V4

1:43 And uh I also just started playing around with it. And then I read somewhere that it's really hard to do like either can do like fashion or like it's very hard to do like models with like animal heads. I read that somewhere because yeah I either want to push human or an animal and I was like is it really that hard? And then I played around with it trying to do like this fashion piece all these like models having like animal heads and all of a sudden one of them had like this kind of hybrid face. Uh had like like a human animal mix and I was thought it's really interesting and then I kind of developed it further and then it kind of like blew up when I started like my own Instagram [music] account the hybrid portraits and then was just very popular but I think it's like that's right actually it was the hybrid portraits Instagram page where you were putting up art prints of your actual characters and stuff. Um, yeah, this was prevideo stuff, Andrew. You know, I've been following Phil really since

2:33 there was no really good video available. Runway V1 was probably uh the first time that you started using your art prints, making them into things. But yeah, been a big fan for a long time since V4 midjourney. Oh my god, that is a long time in the AI space. Is that how you got into e is that how you got into the the AI the videos? Was it through midjourney thinking all right well let's see I think like most like most people in the eye space like mid journey was kind of the first model um and I think version three was kind of silly a little bit weird and abstract and stuff and the version four was kind of first time you could like somewhat realistic faces and you could do humans and everybody had like six fingers and stuff but um could do like create looks and I also started so I work in advertising so was also the first version where I

3:20 could see oh wait this can actually this is going to impact um everything very pitch presentation and uh we tried to do this kind of complicated design of like these people sitting on a computer and have like these Iron Man style hut elements like floating around their heads and had like a bunch of designers working on it stock photography and tried to build it in Photoshop and never like really looked 100% and then I was kind of like let's try out this midjourney thing and then within like four hours I kind of like finished this presentation it was all done and that was that was when I realized this is going to be huge basically Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what's interesting? I always ask people like what was their like one of their first wow moments and midjourney actually is comes up quite a lot. It comes up so often. And it means V4. Exactly. V4 when we all had that like moment especially us from an advertising background.

4:13 Andrew, that's the thing that I noticed is if you know how this will apply to creative services, instantly your brain goes, "Oh my god, the possibilities and it's only going to get better from here and all of that." So yeah, um, Black Light joining us in another legend in the show. Uh, another creative session. Had so much fun. Glenn as well. Yeah. Midjourney, man. Me and Glenn actually said the same thing. We met up in New York, Andrew, at an Artist event, and we both uh were asked the question, you know, what was your moment of magic? Um, and MidJourney V4 was the same answer for like all of us in the room. It was kind of mad. I wonder how many people worldwide in the advertising space of around our similar age had that moment. There must have be tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of us.

5:00 Everybody I met, it kind of started with Mid Journey also because if you remember, we had to lose like a Discord server. You couldn't there was no website right you had to like type like these commands and discord so some people were still held back to like get into it and I just had like some time to play around with it I followed like you know like theoretical media all these guys refuge and these are legend first accounts that I followed and they kind of explained art is how you do it and uh yeah and it's still m I'm still a big fan of mid though kind of everything went away went to like I don't know what it is the the the cling or all the other or the the image models like like banana and stuff, but Midney has a special place. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you may be excited, Phil, because

Why Midjourney still has a special place

5:46 yesterday we had Megan on who um is one of the Midjourney mods and she mentioned that an MCP is being released for MidJourney now. So, it may come back into the fray again because I think the reason we let it go is because it isn't part of the general workflow with APIs and everything else that everything else can tune into. So, it could be back in the game and I wouldn't be mad at that. You know, I'd actually be very happy at that. Um, if MidJourney became usable within normal things, but I think everyone moved on, didn't we? We all sort of graduated past it. Midjourney stayed siloed. It didn't really hit the video side of things the way that we wanted it to and it sort of abandoned MidJourney video. So, yeah. Interesting. I mean it's still like the only one that you can experiment with it though, right?

6:35 Start the like location reference either for like films or like some kind of look of a character. Usually like most people start a mid journey because you get this random stuff that you don't really get with Nana Banana and all these tools that al they're all great but they're very precise. They get what your prompt is. with the Mitchell if you crank up the styliz or variations you get all this weird stuff and you totally that's why the only M does that do you know what I figured out actually is um I wasn't technical enough to know this but I was asking why that is the case to some people that like train these image models and he said it's basically the difference between diffusion and auto reggression because nano banana and all of these are very precise exactly as you say but that's because they're auto reggressive models and midjourney still is diffusion to this day

7:24 and hasn't ever changed from diffusion. I think Korea is also a diffusion model and a few others. Um but yeah, there's very few that actually are as competent and as creative in the diffusion space, but that accounts for, you know, the seven fingers and all that other stuff. Yeah. But yeah, Tim Tim from Theoretically Media, I still he had the best YouTube thumbnail of all time. Andrew, it was midjourney version seven and he held up a hand with seven fingers like this. [laughter] So clever of him to do that. Um, yeah. But for anyone that doesn't know Phil, um, I don't know how because he's so prolific. He's much like Afroofutcher or Ryan Uncanny Harry in that he has lots of stuff coming out quite regularly.

8:11 So others that we've had on creator sessions, they do sort of 30 minute pieces and we wait several months for those. Um, but you are a lot more prolific, Phil. So, we've got loads of stuff to show from you. Nine videos or eight videos in total today. And we're going to start off with some of the fun ones. But I'm going to let you fill in the context because these were about four or five months ago. I think these were Sea Dance 2.0, weren't they, when it first came out. And you thought to put yourself in to some as as a character into your own scenes, which is something we've uh seen with Marco and others. Really, really fun. So, so what um first one is the rooms in the back. How did this come about? I think it's I mean because of course the back rooms came out and everybody was kind of obsessed with that style and that look and I also wanted to try something out.

The bathrobe films: testing Seedance 2.0 multi-shot

9:00 I'm just like I often use these things like I was these kind of silly fun projects also to learn about these software as I learn about these models and so all these films were kind of just quick tests with that stuff. But um I mean seed dance really changed it with when the the second part came out. Seance 2.0 came out. I used the first version too which was also an interesting model but the second one was that whole multi-shot feature that kind of changed the whole AI video film making industry right and that's and that blew my mind when you can just what do you mean I can just have change the camera within one generation. So this these films are really just tests of um multi-shot with one prompt have like several different camera angles in one motion. That's so smart to do it that way though because if you're going to do R&D

9:46 and you may as well post something, you know, to get the benefit of actually getting something out there. Otherwise, R&D will go secret and it'll just be an expense, you know. So, super smart to actually make some content you can post on your own profile for this, especially when you're doing like newsjacking, you know, like getting onto the trends of like the back rooms. I still haven't seen the backs. Have you, Andrew? It's great. No, I we've been like I'm still I still have a camera over here that I haven't set up in two months. Mine's over there somewhere. My diary has just been so chocked that I haven't had time to, you know, I've got two kids as well and I'm desperately trying to like get through the playlist of things I need to watch. The Back rooms is high up on that list.

10:31 Um so I'm not going to know the context for this, which is even more I've seen loads of clips online obviously, you know. Um and the typical sort of scenes. But yeah, let's check it out. For anyone that doesn't know back rooms, let us know what you think. If you do know back rooms, let us know what you think as well. What the hell is this? Hello.

THE ROOMS IN THE BACK

11:26 What the hell? [screaming] Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god.

12:26 [music] [music] That's so much fun. Oh my god. Yeah. And that was Cance 2.0 as well, not even 2.5. Exactly, man. Five months ago. Um, when it first came out really, um, as Phil was saying, R&D, testing the multi-shot, adding himself as a character, seeing how, you know, I think we did similar stuff, you know, just to see how good the character transfer was, how good the multi-shot was. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and the whole visual style of the back rooms because consistency and like environment is always still like a problem. still have to work on it. But because the room is so um or this area where you like walk around is so abstract, doesn't really matter how the deck looks like.

13:17 That's why I thought it's kind of fun. And like you said, like it's really crazy with like one character sheet how you can I mean the guy doesn't look exactly like me, but it's pretty crazy how consistent it stays. And uh yeah, it was really just like a a little silly test to do it. It was also really fast. It's insane how fast you can kind of test out scenes. I mean, this was put together in a couple hours and after How long did it take? Yeah. Oh, I don't even know. Like 3 hours or something, right? You can generate these 15-second clips so quickly and you can really easily stitch them together. It didn't take that long. Nice. [snorts] I love that people are voting like they would in our regular show. Phil, um we usually have a one, two, or three poll whether they, you know, love it, think it's okay, or not. Not not for them. [laughter] So, one obviously, yeah, one is the top. And with creator sessions, obviously we don't do the voting because you're our special guest and we've handpicked you.

14:08 Um, but you know this funny and you might see some ones and twos appear in the chat. So if you do, that's what that's why you're seeing them. [clears throat and laughter] But yeah, we're going to rapid fire through them because as you said, these are just quick tests thrown together in a few hours. But I thought it was a great way to open the session because we're going to watch some really new 2.5 stuff straight afterwards. And even comparing two to 2.5 is quite insane. Exactly. People weren't sure when 2.5 came out that it was a big jump and now we're realizing how big of a jump it actually was. Um it's huge. Yeah. Also like the the visual quality. I mean of course you have kind of 30 seconds, right? In 2.5 you can do this long. It's very cool workflow. It's very easy work. Maybe you start with your prompt and go for like 30 seconds and you see what works, what doesn't work and you can add little edits here and there.

14:55 But 2.5 to2 was still huge. I also was surprised like when I developed like longer film like every time something comes out you're like oh my god this looks amazing like this stuff is really like the quality and like the cinematic style is like it's different and the realism of the faces you know the less plasticky look and everything like we're going to see this in your Icarus Rising project soon but my god it is kind of insane the cinematics. Anyway, do you want to tell us more about how Mayhem came about or any more context on this one? I think Mayhem was actually the first one of this tril the bathrobe trilogy so to say. Like I don't even know why I don't even know where this came from because I thought it was interesting. Like you said, it's all like about personal branding a little bit and test out stuff and make sure like people know it's you.

How Mayhem jumps from set to set

15:41 I mean, it's all part of the game kind of. Um I don't know. Then this character kind of popped up at some point. Um, and Mayhem was like that was the first test um of like how can we always extend like one scene into the next because you have 15 seconds do two 15-second scenes but then if you have to go like how can I go to a different set into a different set and so I kind of like try to push this to an extreme on how to you're going to see it. It's kind of like oh at one place and then I'm in the next place and I kind of like that was the idea to like change. Oh that's fun though. So you're trying to test your ability to go from environment to environment and keep [clears throat] Because I either jump you see I jump through a window and then I'm in a new place and then I fall through the ground and I'm in the garage and then I was always like, "Okay, how can I change? How did I get from the garage to the next scene?" Nice.

16:29 Oh, so this is the fun transitions. Um, so let's check it out. Mayhem Sea Dance 2.0 short film. Heat. Heat. DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON OUTSIDE?

MAYHEM

17:28 Get out of the way, Grandpa. Are you serious? Heat.

18:15 Heat. [screaming] [music] Oh, that music is banging at the end there. Oh my god. I haven't seen these in a while. [clears throat] [laughter] You know what? If I if I was just in my house and it was on TV, I wouldn't be thinking, "Oh, someone's done AI." I'd be thinking, "What film is this from?" Like I literally would be thinking what film is this from not oh this is just a little short clip that's I would love for you to remake that exact one in Sea Dance 2.5 you know scene for scene just to see the differences

19:03 between the cinematics cuz I think even then you'd be even more fooled. You know there was definitely things that you can see but that's because we've got the trained eye now because we've watched so many videos but I think for the untrained eye they probably wouldn't notice it at all. They'll be thinking what film is this from? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's really it's really I also thought about like testing this in 2.5, but then you always want to do like let's do something new with something else, you know? I know, but I I mean I could maybe I extend the the trilogy to another adventure of bathrobe fil. Where'd you come up with these ideas? It really like I mean that's one of the interesting parts I think about AI film making is really that you usually do traditional film, right? You you have an idea then you go you shoot it and then that's the footage you have and you have to edit it. And now you can develop the script or the idea while you're editing this film, right?

Where do the ideas come from?

19:54 So it really just started with I don't even know just like this. I thought about like running on rooftops in New York and where the stuff falls apart. That's cool. And then um and then it's really just while I'm editing this I'm generating the next scene. It's like maybe I jump through a window and then that works and if it doesn't work then I do something else and it's just like a train of thought while the film is being generated. I edit it together and then that's why it's also so fast. It's kind of like just how do I get consistency? I mean, you saw it's not always working, right? They go through a door in a completely different kind of like light or whatever kind of want to match it. But yeah, it's really just go with the flow a little bit with these things. California girl wants to know, do you actually have these as dreams? Because uh it's kind of it did remind me of a dream sequence, you know, it's just incredible

20:44 thing. I've especially when you're in the underwater pipes and stuff. If I have dreams like that all the time where I'm like in running water and then suddenly I fall off a cliff or something like this. It's true. Actually, now that you said I do have a lot of apocalyptic dreams from time to [laughter] time. There you go. That can be the inspiration for the next bathrobe series is you have an apocalyptic dream. You're in a bathrobe exploring this and the AI 2.5 world. [laughter] Um, so tell more context about Antland. I really loved this one. I thought it's such a smart idea. How where did this one come from? Kind of like the same. I think I saw a Yeah, it was because when C dance came out, C dance was also the first model which could do fight scenes pretty well, right? We saw like fight scenes in other models and it was always kind of eh like Clling did it well, somewhat well, but never really good,

Why ants, not ninjas and robots?

21:36 right? But then all these videos popped up of people like it's always like ninjas or robots fighting each other, which is fine. There's nothing wrong with ninjas and robots fighting each other, but I wanted to do something with fighting, but I didn't want to do uh like ninjas and robots. So, I thought about about ants, and that's how that's how that movie came together. I love it. I love it. So, at the very start, you'll see you'll shrink down to ant size, and then the game is on. So, let's check [clears throat] out Antland. [screaming] Arena.

ANTLAND

22:23 [music] [screaming] You got to go. [music]

23:08 [music] [music] Hey. Heat. [music] Heat.

23:59 [music] [panting and sighs] [music] [laughter] I mean it is always the waking up way. Super creative of mine. Um, but I think this kind of shows the difference also in 2.0 to 2.5. You can see like the it was kind of tricky to have like scale have scale in the same Yeah. Right? Like you see this sometimes these spider is like way too small then it's really big and then the the grass is like not the same and I think it's alo big learning how we create like location

24:47 references and you have to kind of show this the spider is this size and you have to upload an image that shows like how big or the grass looks like and so that's what I mean great test as well you know perspective is hard to get um and you had to hack it in didn't you in seance 2 whereas now the world understanding of 2.5 is so much funnier so much better sorry I thought this comment was brilliant by the way from Danny brought to you by Raid. It made me think you could totally make that into like a bug spray ad or something like you could totally feel that that world works there. Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. I mean I also Wait, sorry you Oh, good. I had my I had my alert that this would start now, but I was I was wrong with the time.

How detailed are the fight prompts?

25:37 Okay. Sure. Um with the um the fight scenes, how much detail do you have to go into it? So, for example, you're you're doing spinning kicks, you're doing back fists, you're punching with your left or punch with your right. Are you prompting in that much detail or are you just more a bit more generalist and it's kind of working out what it would typically do? Yeah. No, you have to be somewhat specific. I mean what you see is kind of what what the prompt is but of course you work with like claude or tetribut which fills in the details but like kind of say like and then uh like very simple way just type in I think then and end comes from the right I do this I jump up do a spin kick and punch the other one but then uh does like does way more details into what exactly happens like where it falls how fast it falls and then you can also go back you see the generation and be

26:26 like ah this is kind of not fast enough um and maybe like scream at the and en rage and then yeah [clears throat] it does that for you. What do you say on average is the amount of tweaks you have to do to a prompt to get it right? Yeah, it's really with C dance is fast. I feel like three times I mean it depends sometimes. Yeah, sure. More but like you do once and then you just and you can also I mean you get 15 seconds sequence with several edits and then you just pick the top like whatever work best and you just stitch it together. Nice. And sometimes it's really interesting these also like with the Icarus film later the like the big epic fight scenes they're like so much easier and so much quicker than you have like a dialogue scene with like two people sitting in a room and the camera. It's fascinating you say that. That's exactly what Cavan and Marco and many other people have said.

Why fights are easier than dialogue

27:15 They were able to almost one-shot the most complex fight scenes, but then the discussion scenes are the ones that take a lot of roles. Yeah. That's really a nightmare with Well, it's just tricky to like get it consistent and then Yeah, like like epic like chase and fight stuff. That's easy. Yep. Well, talking about new updates and stuff, Diane, who is Afroofutcher here, tells me that Cling 4 came out today. So, that's really fascinating. Well, it's a sort of incate. It's like, you know, sort of staged roll out. So, she reckons that by the end of this week that everybody should be able to have it and the API access will be probably next week. But, um, if you're in the CPP for Clling right now, then yeah, you should be able to use it right now apparently.

28:01 Not just the Flash version, but the full version as well, which is pretty cool. Awesome. Pretty cool. Um, but yeah, we're going to jump straight through to your most recent piece. And this is something that we have a lot in common with here and I want you to you know tell us a lot about the story of how slop hunters came to be because you know someone running a big community we've seen a lot of negative feedback like this over the years in AI but yeah how how exactly did that come to be? Yeah. Yeah. I mean slurp hunters um I mean ever since I started with this even like the hybrid portraits there was always like a lot of like negative and hate comments obviously. I mean got pretty used to it and it also comes often for I mean I also understand when it from from who it comes from and why it's

Where Slophunters came from

28:48 there. I mean it is like whenever like a new technology like this comes industry gets shaken up right and then there's going to be new opportunities but also others go away and special effects people or VFX and stuff. Of course everybody's like hit pretty hard by this. So I understand that there's a lot of negativity and of course the way these AI models were trained it's questionable. I mean I know all this stuff and also don't not super happy that we give my I give my money to like a bunch of billionaires but if there would be if there would be a model that we is like um sourced like properly and artists getting paid and even can be a little bit more expensive I would instantly jump on this problem is just these models they are just there's nothing out there that can compete with this but yeah I get a lot of I don't know I also have like fun with it discussing with people on LinkedIn mostly about like

29:37 why this is not arts or whatever art is always film making and then uh I don't know I thought I'm gonna make a little film about these people that uh that hate new technology whatever it does so that's how came about oh that's brilliant thank you so much for the context um if you go to the bite pit uh YouTube page this is the most recent post on your YouTube page so people may have seen this recently and on LinkedIn as well um but Andrew won't have seen this so this will be really fun I think this is in a square aspect ratio. So, I'm going to get us off the stage. Let's check it out. O, what do you think you're doing there? Art. [laughter] All you do IS PRESS A BLOODY BUTTON.

SLOPHUNTERS

30:27 You don't create anything. [laughter] I just wanted to create a photograph. All you create is slop. I'm sorry, but who are you? The slop hunters. Movies with sound. Ridiculous. We play the music. I'm sorry. I I don't know what to tell you. This is not music. This is just noise. IT'S SLOP. THAT'S RIGHT. And we are the slop hunters,

31:22 Look at that big nerd. Click, click, click, beep, boop, click, click. Look, I'm an artist. You think this is design from a machine? Well, it's mathematics. It can BE ANYTHING. NO, IT SLOP. Remember us. We are the slope hunters. Ha. This guy thinks that's music from a computer. Did you spend decades mastering a real instrument like the bassoon? I'm sorry. No. I just love MAKING MUSIC. YOU LOVE MAKING SLOP.

32:14 Look at those pixels. So lifelike. Ah, look out. It's a real T-Rex. Pathetic. People will never believe that's real, you fool. Well, it's just another way to TELL STORIES. IT'S ANOTHER WAY TO CREATE SLOB. Oh la, WE'VE GOT OURSELVES A PROPER FILMMAKER. YOU just type a few words and the AI DOES EVERYTHING. NO. NO. HE JUST PRESSES A BUTTON. AI, BRO. SO EASY, LOSER. What's a slot hunter?

33:06 Brilliant. Oh my god. Smart concept. When did you just make that one? I think like a month ago or something. Three weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah. What was the reaction to sea dance 2.5? Is obvious is very obvious. 2.5. Yeah. The reaction was a LinkedIn was it got like was pretty popular post I guess um and not that many negative comments. I think people a lot of people were kind of like ah finally somebody um did something like this. Of course other people said like why are you making fun of like people that lose their job like it's obviously not about these people it's about that reject any new form of media or whatever. Yeah. And it's slop hunters because there was like a bunch of guys on LinkedIn that really like hunted.

The LinkedIn slop hunters

33:51 Like every piece I posted hunted always the same guy was kind of like, "Oh, we go again. It's another slop." If you think so. It's cool. Wow. That's brilliant. It's such a good concept. When we start uh Genim TV, Andrew, that has got to be one of the shows that comes on imits in between, it was brilliant. It felt so MTV. It felt so like felt that like magazine type shower, you know, like that type of vibe. Like totally it was so fun. Yeah. Oh my god, that's so fun. I'm so glad that we played that one and we played the the, you know, the 2.0's first and then you see that giant leap in quality cuz the characters just feel so real there and like the faces and the textures and everything.

34:42 Even you, you know, as a character in that look so much more like yourself than in the 2.0 versions just a few months ago. So, it's a really big big leap. Yeah. Also, the storytelling in that one because Yeah, it was great. It was almost saying, look, this has been a this is a circle. This is not something new. This is just a circle that happens every 30, 40 years, you know. So, and it's it's just telling a story to say, look, this is just the next evolution. So, I thought that was very smart. I mean, it's always been the same. Obviously, this gets bigger and bigger like AI is just like the thing is also the access to this technology is easier, right? It's like very it's kind of simple to like type something. It's they're not wrong. just type it in appears. But um to make like a Korean piece, it still takes

Kraftwerk, canned music and the same old panic

35:30 taste and and skill and stuff. But also, yes, like the example with like craftware, like the electronic guys, like I mean they they all trained musicians, so it doesn't really work, but you could also then make music without traditional musician training. Uh and it was also totally rejected like you cannot even play anything properly. But no man, they were pioneers. a crowd work were like one of my original I'm a like you know uh EDM DJ. So I literally looked at them as being the pioneers of EDM as a genre really. It was fascinating. And you know what I really love that you included and this is a little tidbit that we watched. Uh, I think Kareem sent me this who's been on a previous creative session, but you know the vinyl player

36:15 um that there was a literal posters that were run saying that if you recorded music, this was canned music, Andrew. And the live performing Yeah. No, any recorded music. They call it canned music because live performing [clears throat] music was the only way that that and for three years they were able to actually stop all of recording of music. They had um they had a society that got together and basically banned the recording of music for several years calling it canned music. I mean how ridiculous now in the in the long history of time that that is a thing. There was a poster also like in German somewhere that from like yeah what is it the 30s or something or even early I don't even know about like how when

37:03 the music was like played live right for the movies and changed exactly the same arguments that you hear now about like yeah you don't support real musicians if you go to this type of music and you don't support art and it's also not like all this stuff kind of came back 100 years later it's interesting um it's a circle it's a circle it is uh what were they called the Lites and or something, weren't they? It's like, you know, this is just basically repeating itself through every form of technology, this version of the Lites. Anyway, now we're going to cut to your piece that we actually so glad that we haven't watched on the live show. And I don't know why we haven't seen this because we've seen so many of your things, but Icarus Rising is really the thing that you've been sort of known for now. It's really struck struck a chord with people and and it's obvious why.

From humans to Avatar to hybrid animals

37:52 It's incredible storytelling, but um for Andrew, you know, please explain how this one came around. Uh what inspired this one because it's a very different sort of story. Yeah, I mean that's that was the big like 2.5 showcase also for me. Um I thought like the story of Icarus was always I always thought it's kind of I don't know why even as a child I thought it's kind of interesting, kind of cool and I wanted and I always thought about maybe I wanted to retell that that story in like AI. I thought of because also with the same because you have the it mostly plays in the in the maze in the labyrinth so you also don't have that much problems with like consistent backgrounds. It can be somewhat abstract. I thought it's interesting and I started actually the concept with with humans first uh like human humans [laughter] but I thought it was kind of

38:40 wasn't really inspired. It was kind of like normal and then I created another characters and they had like big eyes and had kind of like green skin so it looked kind of artificial. And then I was like, this is just Avatar. I'm recreating Avatar here. And then I realized I have these the hybrid portraits. I have all these animal characters that I developed over like years of them. And then I always wanted to do like storytelling and something cinematic with them. And before the tools weren't really there. And with C10 Super 2 and 5, I was like, when I'm when I using this app that I kind of have and create like a whole world with these animal characters. So Icarus Rising is the first one. There's going to be a sequel soon. Kind of developing other stories in that hybrid portraits world. So, I don't really know what it's going to be yet. I wondered if you were going to say this related to hybrid portraits cuz now I can totally see the relation and the characters

39:30 cuz I watched this. Uh, but Andrew for I'm going to send you some of the uh hybrid portraits from Midenny version 4 after the show so that you can see, you know, the sort of like origins of all of these characters. But strapping in guys, this one is nine and a half minutes long. You know, it's a proper, you know, we're gonna watch something proper and then thank you so much for giving us a short clip from the episode two that we're going to preview after this. So, that will be something that even if you're a big fan of Phil and you follow him, you won't have seen this yet. It's a scene from something that's not out yet. So, really, thank you so much for providing that to us. And get your questions in now, guys, whilst we're watching Icarus Rising. Get all of your questions in because this one really is incredible.

40:15 And uh you know, anything you want to know about the creation of it, any scenes, try and note down roughly when abouts the scene happened and and everything else like that cuz like I say, it's a long piece. But strap in [music] [music]

ICARUS RISING

41:01 Icorus, your time has come. My time [music] is above this place. Nothing rises from the labyrinth. Watch me. My eye.

42:05 Interest run. [music] Father, I think I made him angry. You almost died. The maze does not forgive arrogance. And here I thought you would be impressed. I thought my son was not reckless enough to die like a fool. I'd rather die a fool than live a coward. Coward? All I do is keep you alive. Alive? You call this living?

42:54 These are your walls. I was trying to protect you like you protected mother. You were teaching me to be afraid like you

43:43 Father, listen. What I said before, I I did not mean it. Not all of it. I was angry. It has been years, father. Years of stone, years of hiding, years of waking up and seeing the same walls above me. And every year you grow older. One day you will be gone and this place will still be here. And then it will be me alone growing older inside your maze until there is nothing left of me but bones and memory. You think I do not know that? It is all I think about. But I cannot gamble with your life. You are not a risk to be calculated. You are my son.

44:34 [music] What do you see? [music] A chance. Sh.

45:29 Oh, this is it. We made it, son. Watch out. Darus, you built my prison. Now die.

46:17 No, don't leave me here. [screaming] Icarus, listen to me. I built these wings with beeswax and feathers. They will carry you, but they will not forgive you. Fly too low and the sea will drink the feathers. Too high and the sun will soften the wax. Stay between them. Stay with me. You can't be reckless.

47:14 [music] Oh, of course. Heat. [music] Heat.

48:02 [music] Stay between sea and sun. Remember [music] I remember [music] [music] Father, we have to go higher. [music] [music]

48:48 [music] [music] Just a little higher. No, stay with me. [music] Enter your eyes. [music] [music] [music]

49:46 [music] [music] Wow. Wow. Wow. That was amazing. Okay. The that question has been Yeah. over the labyrinth was just so gorgeous and then out the sea and all of that scenes with like skimming across the water and a I like the bit when it first went up when the when the big wave was coming and it went up and it just the way the zoomed I think it zoomed out. I think it was it looked great. Reminded me of when I first watched I think it was Man of Steel. They had this new effects in it and it looked like that the way they were zooming in and out. It looked really cool and that reminded Yeah, I know.

50:35 Yeah, the but the camera kind like searches for them like and they were going Oh, they were going up like this. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Thanks so much. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That was actually really the prompt was kind of like the cameras like they're far away and the camera zooms in and tries to like find them and then Yeah. Yeah. And then you do it and Sean just does it for you and I'm still like blown away by you have this idea and Se dance pops it out and it works. Yeah. Wow. The comments are really coming in now and Glenn is a master. So for him to say this is one of the most engaging pieces he's seen to date is a really big compliment. Um love the ears reacting to the emotions I noticed that as well. That was a really big detail when especially with this like anthropomorphic characters that you've got. It had to like make the same human things. But this is something that you wouldn't normally see in a human.

51:24 So it was like additional emotion almost. It was very very cool. Um, yes, and there were some questions that came in during this, so let's bring these up onto the stage. Um, LinkedIn Jeremy, thank you so much, asking about how the hell you can afford this. Um, how much did that piece cost to make overall? I'm just a super rich guy. I can just No, it's uh [laughter] I mean it's I was lucky enough because of the popularity of the hybrid portraits Instagram account, I got invited to all these uh creator partnership programs and I was early into the the runway one and then in runway you get like a million credits when you sign up for like a mill and I had this in because I was still like kind of like I don't want to use them all. So, I had like 800,000 credits in my account.

What did Icarus Rising cost?

52:10 I was kind of like, you know what? I'm just going to like go all in. And I used I don't really know. I think I used 250,000 credits or 300,000. I think it's around it would have been around like $4,000, I think, if I would have paid for this because So, this is all in runway as well. It's but Cance in Runway. Like Cance is also generate in runway. And I think I did some stuff with Dreamina AI, but it's all Cance 2.5. Um, yeah. Yeah, you could really tell. Uh, Santiago's got a question about with 2.5, do you need to use such complex character sheets that you did with 2.0 or is it slightly different nowadays than it was back then? Um, it's interesting. I like I go back and forth a little bit here for this film. I use like one of those complex ones with your Yeah, you have like the main views, but you also have like close-up of the hands and closeup of the back and then um it's like 15 images

Do you still need complex character sheets in 2.5?

53:02 in one sheet, I guess. and it works really well. But I thought I but you want these the face details are so important. I want this like bigger in the image. So I kind of go back and forth between all these detailed uh characters and more broad ones which just to be like just face from the front and the body and the body from behind. But I noticed it's good to have these extra details because sometimes you have a shot where the character either he turns around and you didn't think of it. Yeah, it should have shown this or a detail on the clothing. So there I don't think there's really it depends on what kind of movie you want to make. Sometimes it's enough to have a simple character sheet and sometimes it makes sense to have a complex one. That's a great answer and it's exactly what we find as well. Medium to close-up shots, less of the, you know, requirements of the 15 pieces, but then obviously any movement um anything that's a wide angle shot is definitely more detailed the better.

53:52 So, it's not guessing and and filling in the lines. Uh really really smart. And the ears are like it's funny. The ears are always a problem with with an animation with these animal characters because the the models always want to add human ears. It's get confused. You have a character that turns around human ears and I always want to avoid I want them to have animal ears and no human ears. But totally. Yeah. If you look closely, you can see sometimes there's a human ear when he turns around. And I did it so often that sometimes I'm like, "Forget it. I just leave it in." Yeah. Yeah. I bet you were constantly fighting actually, weren't you? because as you say, the training data source won't have that a hybrid thing. So, you're really having to fight it in every single time. Now, I know Andrew, um, did you have to leave at the hour, mate?

The human ears problem

54:39 Um, uh, I 10 more minutes. I can do 10 more minutes. All right. 10 more minutes. Okay. Well, great. Then we will do and thank you again, um, for sending this the preview of the next episode for So, this is the continuation, I guess, of this. This is episode two, and we've got a two-minute scene. Um, you've called it deadless reckoning. [laughter] I know it's very dramatic. No. Um, because when I showed this movie was also at the AI filmmakers event that we have here in Berlin. Um, really cool. And we we also saw on the big screen. It's really interesting because it was in the in the movie theater and then people kept saying like um like is there a sequel and I was kind there's no sequel. This is the story of like that's the end of the story. There is no Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then uh I thought like maybe there is a sequel and then yeah what and then I try to like develop

A sequel nobody planned, and a Berlin cinema screening

55:28 this concept of like what is this data going to do after that happened? And so I love that. So now you're pushing past the fable and the story that we know into new territory with this new episode. How cool. M did you have to um when you showed this at the Bellin Film Festival, did you have to do some giant upscaling or anything to get it on a cinema screen or it's like uh I mean because these was they were generated in 720p only but then with Topas I cranked it up to 4K and then it's and it looks really look really good. I was surprised. [clears throat] I mean Topas does it it's not like it just sharpens it a little bit and makes it bigger. There's not the new details, but I think the that's the way to go because if you would do it in 1080p and it's that's then $10,000. It's so expensive to have a generation. So, I think for now 720p and upscale to 4K, it's kind of like it looks good.

720p, Topaz and 4K

56:21 Yeah, that's really interesting. even um uh cuz we I've done so many Dreamina things recently and uh they are talking about having a 480p to 4K preview uh which is going to be an interesting jump and if we can preview everything in 480 and it actually looks like what the 4K is going to look like then that's going to be very very handy huge I mean the the thing they did already with C dance that you have a preview mode for for HD right that yes work with in advertising like I said and these very specific shots they want to have and before that was such a slot machine work and now they can see it in 480 and you just bump it up once it works. It's great. It's going to be a actual game changer for clients because we can send them the 480p previs Andrew and not have to pay for this you know and it's a lot less

57:11 Exactly. So yeah, and hopefully, you know, clients will understand this process as as a previs thing because they will have never seen anything like this before. And this is obviously because the text allowed for it um this previs but it's also different. There was also the first film I did without start frames because usually you always do like a start frame and you tweak it and then that's when action happens in that frame and this was really all the the entire film is just reference images. It's just like every character we reference image and every location has like two or three. So the whole film is made with like 10 images maybe at all. Um yeah, so you can't really when you work with clients, you can't really pre before you could do these start frames and say like this is the first shot, the second shot and the client signs off and you're good. But now it's kind of like I don't really know what's going to happen because you have a character reference sheet and a location sheet and you have a prompt that describes where the camera is, what they do, but I have to generate

No start frames: about ten images for ten minutes

58:05 it first, which is kind of cool because you can show the client already like this is how it's going to behave and how it's going to look. Um yeah, yeah, yeah, it's going to be Yeah, another big change, you know, as if this year hadn't been enough changes. I've just been I've just been doing a timeline, by the way, Andre. And you know, Seance came out this year. You know, Seance 2 is still this year. Two came out this year. Not even 2.5. Two came out in February. So, it's like I remember it being around about the Super Bowl time when it came out. Yes. The big sea dance change. I remember 3.1 in the new year. Can you imagine? It was only a couple of years ago where Sora came out around the Super Bowl time and everyone was like, "Oh my god, look what video is going to be like." So, uh yeah. Yeah. And that was what, two, three years ago. And now look how far it's come.

58:53 It's such a sh. It's funny you mentioned Sora, actually, because Sora did do multi-shot as well. And I think that really is the change of this year. And the fact that Phil only has to use 10 images to make a 10-minute movie for me. That's the big Yeah. Yeah. I think Marco said he used three, didn't he, to make these 25, very minimal, like it was like Yeah. Like images are becoming a less and less requirement. It's like character sheets and environments, but he was making environments with text, which is why he got so many. Yeah. No, it's true. I mean, you need need much more. I mean, the character sheet, there's one for the like the the like Icarus with the wings, without the wings, with that backpack. So, you have like have several character sheets kind of like whatever. And otherwise, they would lose their wings when they shouldn't have them and all that stuff.

59:41 But yeah, you just need one very specific. You also have to think how does the location how what the location sheet has to like make sure you can kind of get it from all the angles. So um but yeah the multi-shot I also thought when Sora came out that was really the first moment where I thought like oh this is going to change like a lot because it was so different to like you said like you have like different you have like storytelling and what I thought was kind of almost scary with Sora is like there is also a little creativity and humor in these models. stuff like I did like you prompted and you put a picture of yourself in there and then it's kind of funny [laughter] but where where's that humor coming from? I was also a little creative and you can kind of see well let's see where this goes in like two three years you know these like creativity is super important of course and humor is very human and stuff but it's kind of like baked in there and I wonder

Is there humour in the models?

1:00:31 how much time we have [laughter] until it's like you know that the models are creative enough or funny enough to like create um interesting content by themselves. I know and that's the weird element you know in one year we went from guessing whether it would have the midjourney rise like image did for to photo realism to oh my god AIs are going to be able to make their own movies in the same year which is totally you know the thing that I discovered yesterday in the live show with Chris is I think the whole future of video is code I literally don't even think it's going to be video it's going to be code because we're seeing Claude Opus do things with motion and JavaScript and HTML design and game design.

1:01:17 Like you wouldn't believe, Andrew. And there's no game engine. There's no code, you know, there's no video. It's literally code. So it's like I don't know where this is all going. And World Models is going to interact with all of that as well. And then we're going to get a whole bunch of other stuff. And but in one year, we went from wondering if AI video is going to be as quick as image. And I honestly guessed no. Obviously wrong, because I thought it might take several years because the amount of frames per second, you know, like and and and it just being so much of a harder problem. Obviously, I have no idea what I'm talking about because they Yeah. I mean, most people everyone's guessing. Yeah. Exactly. Also the experts I mean there is no I mean of course there's experts but I'm also surprised that like Cance is like at 30 seconds already and I mean this here going to be 4K.

1:02:08 If it's 30 seconds now I'm pretty sure it's going to be 5 minutes at some point and then this whole idea of like you create your own Netflix show where you just type it in and then you have an episode of Breaking Bad but you're the bad guy. That's totally on the horizon. That's not I mean that's almost there kind of give it a year or two. Exactly. Yeah. Personalized content at scale and real time media generation is the thing that me and Justin Hackne and a few of the foul guys are talking about. You know using like H3 models to generate faster than you are actually able to prompt. So you can have continuously running things which is really another interesting thing. But anyway, Andrew's got to go. I want to show him Deadless Reckoning sneak peek a two-minute scene. Um, is this a particular scene you want to tell us about or should we ask afterwards?

1:02:58 Um, it's somewhat at the beginning. It's kind of like Datalus decides to I mean to visit the king who kind of like set up the the maze, the labyrinth, where it's like his for this. So, it's kind of like how he gets in there. It's a little bit Batman. Okay, cool. That's good to know. It's towards the beginning, though, so we're not spoiling too much of the episode. All right, let's check it out. Heat. [music] Heat.

ICARUS RISING SEQUEL: SNEAK PEEK

1:03:47 Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. [music]

1:04:33 [music] [music] I can't see. Wow. Oh my god. Great. That was fantastic. Like just so many things. The story, the scene, the fight scene. I love when you do the slow-mo bits and you do that quite I've noticed you did it quite a lot in the thing, but when you done the kick and the and the things

Wing sweeps, slow motion and superhero landings

1:05:23 that was coming off of his face and Yeah, that was way to land. The wing uh foot sweep as well, you know, having it wings to feet. Oh, that was sick. I would never even have thought of that. That's It was super tricky. There was like what was it? Some X-Men character has like these wings, right? Isn't there like a X-Men guy with like wings? There's a movie where he like fights. I think it's like the bad X-Men movie, the third one or something. Right. Right. But there it's kind of like inspired by that whole It was kind of cool. I thought like maybe you can use that. But yeah, but the slow motion is all like Yeah. It's also in the prompt, right? It's just like really I want now like when he kicks him in the face I want like a Yeah. Or superhero landing super important. Yeah. Um but also interesting is because this kind of like still rough cut like sound design is so um because this

1:06:11 doesn't have like a final sound design yet. Um that's still like such a problem or like a challenge in AI, right? Like how do you make this like especially when like fight scenes has like some tough on some cool sound design that's still missing here but that was a question that came in from dad guy actually um how do you do your music and sound effects so flawlessly so clearly you're doing a great job there um I like the droning sort of underlying current you know the building of tension it's not even necessar yeah it's not it's like it's kind of just like background like tense building you know stuff it's really nice stuff Yeah. Do you do you dip into anything like Art List or do you you know find music for that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like Art List or there's a free platform. I keep on forgetting the name Pixab Bay or something.

How does Phil do his music and sound?

1:06:57 All that kind of similar um royalty free music and always this guy I think his name is Axel Gro or something. I think I had him in the in the credits of the last movie and I love his stuff and just like you said it's like more like drone. It's not really music. It's more like a background layer which makes easier to develop the story. You don't you're not so like tied to like beats and the some music and just have like some kind of um like atmospheric stuff and it takes a long time until I find something that's kind of I always look you not prompt it with suno or anything or no I I don't really I tried a little bit but I was never really happy with that music I do some um sound effects prompted sound effects are in there but u and the stuff that seance gives you I mean there's sound effects in sea dance it's good but you still have to like add stuff I think Sound is like 40% of that finished product is like sound design.

1:07:47 So important. Yeah, that's another running theme with our guests is uh everyone appreciates sound and I think that we get attracted to your stuff through knowing that you're um you know very good at music and sound effects and layering and all of that. It's clear and obvious. Yeah. Girl has a good question. She goes, "Are the wings costumes going dark a clue?" Yes, the black wings. I noticed that. Yeah. It felt like the revenge. The revenge. I mean, he's trying to like sneak in somewhere. Exactly. So, he can't have the white wings and stuff. So, it's kind of like a He's trying to get to the king basically. Nice. In ninja mode. I like it. I like it. Question from Danny here as well. What is the inspiration impetus for using animals? Is it something that you can pinpoint or just something you envision the characters looking like from the outset?

Why animals?

1:08:37 I'm just so happy to see the hybrid animal portraits that I knew and loved in action, you know, like I'm just so glad they're in your films now. I think I don't know. No, there wasn't I mean, of course, like the gods are like panthers and wolves and stuff and um the king is going to be like this this big boar menacing guy. So, I'm kind of trying to tie the the animals to the character. Yeah. And they are like these cat-like figures because I I kind of like the like the long thin limbs. It's kind of cool. I thought it looks kind of interesting. Then these panther guys, they look um Yeah, it was really just like playing with it. It's really fun the way that you like mashed together these hybrid portraits into your videos now. I can't wait to see more, honestly. And long may it continue. I mean, it was hard to get episode two to make it work, but honestly, you cliffhanger.

1:09:30 That's brilliant. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you. No, I try to I don't know. Maybe there's a whole universe with like try to like there's Dantis Inferno. Maybe I do like a like Robin Hood obviously kind of like the idea is kind of to start like this whole world of like these hybrid animals, but tell these stories in like a different very distinct style. That's awesome. I would love to see a Robin Hood one from you. I was just in Sherwood Forest. Um the original place of Robin Hood cuz my wife is actually from Nottingham and uh yeah, everywhere there is, you know, about it. It's crazy. Statues and like plaques and everything and kind of mental. I would love to see that story retold. Yeah. So would I really I've always felt that nobody's really got Robin Hood

1:10:17 like good. I remember Kevin Cosner had one. Kevin Costner had like one back in the day and then there was one that came out recently. I think it was called Hood. When I say recent in the last say seven, eight years and it looked good but that actually was not a good film. So actually I would like to see someone now Robin Hood. It was one this year with uh you Jackman playing like old Robin Hoods. Is that the only Really? Let me see. I think it was a big flop unfortunately but it was kind of Yeah, it might have been that one. Yeah, it's like super violent. It's like Robin Hood is like old now and uh and it's also like a shady character. It wasn't like black or white. It was like Oh, really? Oh my god. Almost. It was the the the mean one or he was the equal. The one I was thinking of came out in 2018

1:11:03 and it had uh Jamie Fox and uh Taran Eggerton. Many people have tried it over the years. Yeah. It's given a 5.4 on IMDb. So yeah, leverage is not good. Yeah. Yeah. Tough one. Oh man, I would love to see a Phil Lang of Robin Hood. My god. [laughter] You know, I found um someone asked me about it the other day and I I found out a really interesting fact about Well, obviously we don't know if Robin Hood was a real person. They think it was based on something to do with a real person, but they're not sure about how real he was and everything. But apparently his cousin actually killed him uh in a bloodletting thing according to the law of the place, you know, in the in the

1:11:51 um and he was dying because he'd been betrayed by his cousin and he was given a bow and arrow and he fired it out the window and that's where he was buried according to the law is exactly how far away his arrow was buried. Yeah. So things like that where it's like, you know, to the story. Exactly. The story you're going to do. Yeah, I'm writing this song right now. Yeah. [laughter] Well, Andrew, if you need to go, mate. Um, don't worry. We're going to watch The Darkness Wakes next, which is a seveninut project from Phil. Um, I think this one was made with Cling, was it? Yeah, this was like a [clears throat] three. Uh, yeah. And then cling three, 4K. Three. Yeah. Is it three or four right now? I'm getting confused now. But I think it's three. And then 4K version came out when I was done with a film. I was so annoying. Oh, that's so always the way. That was a question I was going to ask you like when it comes to for example ideas or things like that.

Do you hold ideas back for the next model?

1:12:45 Do you think have you got like an idea that you're so excited to put together but you're thinking I don't want to do it for Sea Dance 2.5 because I know Sea Dance 3 is coming out so I'm going to hold back on this idea. Do you have Do you have a lot of those? For sure. A little bit. Yeah. I mean uh but then in the beginning I had this but then I was kind of like I have to like get this stuff out otherwise you wait for and there's another model you always be waiting always. Yeah. Yeah. But it's often and especially also I go back when I go back to like my job in advertising is the same thing. You finish something for a client and and then a week later like a new version of a video model comes out. You kind of like a we should have like waited two more days and regenerate everything because now it looks so much better. And also because when you put this out there, people are going to be like, "This is like the latest stuff from this

1:13:32 and then get me started." Yeah. It was the latest stuff two weeks ago, but now Yeah. The worst thing with advertising clients is that they sometimes hold on to it for months before they publish it and then it makes you seem totally incompetent, whereas actually it was bang up to date the minute you submitted it, you know, and oh god, that's annoying. But yeah, I feel your pain. Daniela is saying, "Thank you, Andrew. Good to see you back, mate." Thank you everyone. And Simon, Simon, Phil, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this the stuff. I'm going to go Well, I'm going to go back and watch some of these and also I'm going to watch the rest of the show and we definitely will stay in touch. We'd love to have you on again. Yeah. See where things go and you love to see I'm sure you've got a lot more stuff as well.

1:14:18 So, we'd love to get you on again. He's so prolific. It's going to be another creative session for sure. Definitely. Definitely. Brilliant. All right, guys. Thanks everyone in the chat. Chris, take care everyone. Goodbye. See you in a bit. Oh, this is fun, Phil. This is fun. So, Darkness Awakes below the deep, an underwater horror film made with Clling weeks ago. Horror is not my thing, but Uncanny Harry and others that have been guests, you know, they're really into the genre. Is horror your thing or is it something that you experiment with or? Yeah, I kind of like not like usual a fan, but of course I mean I like the classics of like I don't know the shining whatever or six sense. I don't like like the bloody gory stuff necessarily. And also this was also the idea the idea about this was like how can I create like tension

1:15:07 for longer with AI video. Usually you have like these ups and downs and you have like these limitations in I video and I wanted to do something that's kind of like has tension throughout but it's kind of it's thing three. I think this is like six weeks ago or even longer but I hope I hope hope it holds up. Um yeah. Oh well don't worry you know we're going back and forth and this is the thing that I love about these creative sessions. We started out with and we didn't even go back to your like midjourney stuff which is we will do in the next session. You know we'll start with the hybrid [clears throat] animal portraits and get some nice images carousels that you made. I I shared so many of them on the AI live show over the like first few months you were doing them. I remember actually we used to put up like um you used to put up like 20 sets, you know, like and we used to share all 20 and in a carousel in LinkedIn and

1:15:55 people were loving them. So now they're graduating into films and stuff, you know. Uh it's so cool that people can follow that journey. Actually, that's one of the things that we've been giving as feedback to a lot of the people on create sessions. Um some people are very good at carrying things throughout every AI film, so you know it's them. You know, Simon is incredible at this. Uncanny is incredible at this. You know, they've got subtle hints or characters that you know them straight away to be theirs. Um, other AI creators don't have this though, you know. Yeah. I think it's important, right, to have like you have to create your own language, your own style, your own look a little bit because it's so easy. It's very easy to get into this and create content, but it's very it's very hard to stand out. So, I mean, that's also obviously a reason why I make fool of myself with in the bathrobe

Why you need your own visual language

1:16:43 jumping from a building. also kind of like obviously this supposed to be me but it's yeah it's important to like stick out of the crowd. Yeah, it's great fun too and it makes you really personable and it it opens [laughter] up your humor. You know the funniest thing is that Seimon has got one of the best humors and I I think you were up there too. Not us Brits always think that Germans humor is not really there but the you guys are insane examples of like really against against [laughter] that. Yeah. So, I think it's probably because you're so good at advertising. I think both of you have done this as a you know, you're at the top of the advertising game. So, it's it maybe helps through just all of the um practice you've had uh for the humor to be able to come through.

1:17:29 It's really really obvious because in advertising you have to like focus on like stuff has to work in a short amount of time in ads, right? So, that's also kind of plays into into AI films. You don't have like an hour. You have like stuff has to work and and that's what Zeon does like super well, right? I mean, you can kind of tell this guy knows his stuff and everything has to have a story and an idea. It's not just about the it's really not just about the visual quality. It's really about like is there something that makes it stand out and that's it's like totally true. Yeah. Yeah. Seimon has not been on the podcast yet because he had a baby, didn't he? And Andrew is he's his like number one creator. So, we got to get him on and he's just winning competition after competition, it seems like. Oh yeah. Can I tell him, doesn't he? He's crazy.

1:18:15 I said I leave some for the rest of us. Yeah. He was [laughter] like, that's actually what Andrew said. It's like if you see him entering, you probably don't want to enter at this point because [laughter] he's just got it so good, you know. But it's it's like you say, he's got a twist. He's got the story. It's always something new. It's and he uses lots of famous characters like Frankenstein and Dracula. And I think that really helps sell something, you know, like um it's really smart. Yeah. Yeah. You guys should get on together. Clearly, I know that now from Real Dreams, you know, you you guys talk and stuff like that. We I think what we could do in the future sessions actually, we could do like a Berlin one, you know, where we just have like every creator in Berlin join a group session and then we do a London one, a Paris one, a Lisbon one.

1:19:05 That would be really, really fun actually. Yeah, that sounds awesome. For sure. Yeah. I know Berlin has I don't really know so much about the other like it's probably huge in in London and stuff and Paris or like you said like a Portugal. Um like really like getting bigger and bigger every like when we started this AF filmmaker meet up I think like three years ago. It was like five nerds in like a cafe and now it's like uh now the the the guy who organizes Ben, he has to like yeah rent this movie theater to fit everybody in there and it's that's awesome. Yeah. I think I met Ben in Shake last week uh in France. I think he did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ben Ben is very cool. Yeah. Yeah. He kind of started this whole thing here. Oh, that's so cool. Right. Well, out without further ado, um let's watch Darkness Wakes Below the Deep.

DARKNESS WAKES BELOW THE DEEP

1:19:57 Submercible Kurushia one. This is mission control. Everything is looking good from up here. Continue to the target depth. [music] Mission control. This is Mizuki. I've reached the kelp [music] forest. Copy that, Mizuki. Take it slow. Visibility will drop quickly down there. [music] All right. All right. Slow down. You should see the opening soon.

1:20:46 I can see it. I found the entrance. Great. Careful now. Here we go. [music] That's the first hall stress warning. You are approaching the safe depth limit. This is getting dangerous now.

1:21:36 [music] Wait, I think I see something. Mission control, I am here. I've reached the station. Copy, Mizuki. What's its condition? Dark. No power. Part of it is gone. It looks like something tore through it. Ishimoto research station reactor accident almost 15 years ago.

1:22:24 The cause was never determined. The core went critical and flooded everyone in the station with gamma radiation. No survivors. That place is a tomb. [music] Oh my god, there's someone inside. Huh? I don't think I got that. There is a person inside the station. [music] Listen, that's impossible. The station's been abandoned for years. You're under stress. Low visibility, low light. No, listen to me. I saw someone.

1:23:13 Clear as day. I'm not just going to leave them. Wait, wait, wait. [music] What are you trying to do? I'm going to attempt a docking approach. You cannot be serious. Radiation is long gone. Some compartments here. Some compartments here still look intact.

1:24:03 [music] This is not real. This is not real. This is not real. This is not real. This is not real.

1:24:51 This is not real. Hey, listen. My name is Mizuki Kado. I'm here on a science mission. I can help you. Are you Are you one of his demons? What? I don't I don't understand. This is not real. This is not real. This is not real. This is not real. This is not real. [music] Please. I am trying to help you.

1:25:40 This is real. If you are real, you should have never come here. You woke him up. Woke up who the devil.

1:26:27 He's been sleeping. Whoa, that was intense. I now see that these drones and reverbs are like your signature sound. And the underwater stuff there was really, really nicely done as well. I heard so much of it in the headphones, you know. It really uh Wow. It's so important like like you said, like the sound design. I think it's also because in these generations when you have several clips, you have to stitch them together. If you don't not like a sound expert, you can kind of hear like a little change. So, like a drone layer above it all. I mean, it's probably standard film making.

1:27:12 It kind of like covers it all. And then um uh yeah, it's kind of it's great experience and honestly is like your signature sound now. I can really hear it. As soon as I heard it in the other pieces, I'm like, "Wow, I'm looking out for it now." You know, it's really uh building the tension. Even the like really slow strings as well, like very very slow, you know, almost like you can't even hear their strings, but so slow. Uh, incredible stuff. Love it. Try to like layer that. Yeah, like sound is big. I mean, it's um and like I said before, like if it's not too specific, it's makes it easier. It's probably also the cheaper way out of like having like a proper Otherwise, you would need like a composer or something, right? You can't Exactly. Right. It seems like you scared the uh bloody hell out of California [laughter] girl there, which is uh what you want in a horror short,

1:28:01 you know, probably. But that was also an example of like developing the story as it went on because I know I love you know Event Horizon the movie is kind of like yeah obviously was kind of like inspired by where they find this abandoned spaceship and then they go on it and there some scary stuff going on and that was all only thing I had in my mind and then it really just yeah it just like progressed as uh I got these generations out and uh awesome. Yeah, I love the experimentation. And it seems like uh Glenn needs to see a collab between you guys. Danny had a funny thing. Is this an Aquaman prequel? I thought that was hilarious. [laughter] That would be at the end. So, we're going to close out. Um, and thank you so much for staying on with us longer than usual.

1:28:50 Usually on for 90 minutes. We both got to go be dad chefs soon, so this is going to be the last one that we watch today. And it's been awesome, honestly, having you on. one of my favorite creative sessions so far. I knew it would be because we've seen so much of your stuff on the regular show and so many people have been asking for you actually to come on to the show as well. You're one of the most requested people we've had for a creative session. So, so glad it worked out and uh yes, now this one I wanted to show because it's very important message. Um, the Blue Piper, a short film about the rise of the right-wing parties in the east of Germany where you live. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, h have you seen this? We've seen this in the news recently in the UK. You know, of the is AFD or I don't know what the name of the party.

The Blue Piper and the rise of the AfD

1:29:39 Very good. Yeah. The AFD is like the right-wing party that's especially I'm from East Germany, from East Berlin. So, they have like a very just a very popular rise of them in uh especially in this part is very difficult. Of course, I mean there's a thousand things why that's in the east especially strong. I mean there's like the way the unification was handled, the way that people maybe didn't have the same challenges as other people, other Germans obviously is not an excuse for voting for the extreme right. Um but yeah, there were elections, local elections recently where they got like um very high in the in these government seats. So this film is about yeah what is the lure or for the East Germans or Germans in general but especially they of like the right wing and I thought about this um yeah like the piper that kind of like lures the people from their sleep as like this mythical figure and it's

1:30:29 the FD is the the blue party like that's their color that's why it's a blue pipe. Oh that's why it's blue. Okay I didn't I didn't get the blue connection but now I totally see it. So you've got the pi piper as the sort of mythical figure. You've got the blue to represent the AFD and oh man that's so clever as a visual analogy now that well and I'm so glad I asked as well because without that context you wouldn't you know necessarily connect them for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe the main character also looks like a certain politician but then it obviously was a coincidence and not intended because they were illegal. [laughter] Right. Of course. Well, as I said I thought it was very important to show this one um and to close it out. Thank you so much. Get your questions in for Phil as we're watching this last piece.

1:31:15 Um, we might get to through to a few of them. Otherwise, go follow him on YouTube, The Bite Pit. Go follow him on LinkedIn, Phil Langanger. Where else are you? Are you on X or or anywhere else? Instagram. Like also the bite pit or habit portraits and YouTube. Try to get YouTube bigger. So, yeah, if you want to follow me on the bite pit on YouTube would be awesome. Try to like get more. Yes, let's go. We're pushing big on YouTube this year as well. On Instagram and LinkedIn and stuff. You know, YouTube is the one that we're going for, too. So, awesome to hear that. Exactly. And what we could do is actually we could um next time we could reream together so that you could see this stream on your channel as well. We did that with Gossip Goblin and Cavan the Kid and a few others. But um yeah, we'll, you know, sort that out and then everyone's YouTube benefits and grows alongside each other.

1:32:04 It's really really nice that YouTube offers this like collaborative stream thing. Um, but yeah, this one's been so fun and yeah, as I said, get your comments in about the Blue Piper. There's a lot of visual analogies going on here. So, let's check it out.

THE BLUE PIPER

1:32:59 Heat. Heat. Yeah. Heat.

1:33:59 [music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [music] Heat. [music] Heat.

1:34:47 Heat. [music] [music] [music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [music] [music]

1:35:40 Heat. Oh, haunted. My god, the string plucks and the drones on everything there. That was really the sound design of of the day, you know. That was actually Yeah, that was actually waso like I remember now like um Oh, really? Yeah. because I couldn't find a track because it was supposed to have like this Piper guy in the beginning like I wanted to have something like eerie and I couldn't find anything. So this was Sununo. Yeah. Oh wow. You layered that up awesome because Yeah, the drums, the drones, the pipes, everything on

1:36:29 top and then obviously the visuals. Um but yeah, man to wrap it all up into that thing. Haunting like I said, but just so great in the way that exactly what it was meant to do. No doubt. Um We're seeing the same here in the UK, by the way. The farright parties, uh, you know, going up. It's really in Europe, it's a it's a particular thing at the moment, isn't it? And yeah, everyone's got a different excuse for it. Here it's about, you know, oh, foreigners and this and that. And it's like it's just like this, man. It's it's it's a crazy time. Um, it is a crazy time. Yeah. Yeah. It's always like simple simple solution for very complex problems, right? Totally. That's exactly what it is. Every headline in the UK has got a simple solution as to why we're in all these troubles and it's like never as black and white and

1:37:20 there's no nuance in any of it. It's all clickbayy headline making you angry, you know. Oh, it's a tough time. And even in social media algorithms, they're doing the same, you know. They're making us rageful rather than en enjoying things. Uh and it's it's intentional, you know. Yeah. And I think we know this as advertising experts. This is because they've figured out this keeps you dwelling longer, you know, like unfortunately there is this part of our psyche which loves the hate, you know, and this this is unfortunately how they can serve you more ads and and this is ultimately what algorithms have optimized towards. Sure. You can really see it yourself like because sometimes I because you click on I mean it's like everyone knows you click on like some kind of right-wing like I also follow I follow Donald Trump on Instagram because I think it's scary sometimes.

1:38:09 Yeah, but then you do that, you add two more other guys and you click one more one more link to many all of a sudden in this right-wing bubble and you're like, what does this algorithm think I am? Like it's insane, isn't it? And as soon as you do anything like that these days, even as you said, I do that for social commentary, too. I watch people that I really hate. Um, and as soon as I interact with their content or even dwell more than 4 seconds, it's suddenly the next thing and the next thing you're suggested are exactly the same types of things. And it's it's quite scary. Quite scary. [laughter] I don't want to end on that note. I think it's been an amazing session. Um it has been such a fun session and honestly I love the breadth of stuff you've got as well. Like you know testing stuff, you're doing different projects, you're doing advertising work.

Is AI part-time for Phil?

1:38:55 Is this all just part-time for you? This AI stuff. Are you still full-time doing regular advertising? Yeah, I mean I have like a I have a 4-day work week. So I have like some time off. Have like Fridays and the weekends. I do stuff in the evening but um yeah I do I like do a lot of AI stuff. I do like at work like Oh you do do it at work as well as yeah I'm basically the AI expert guy in the agency and educate the creative departments of what's possible with AI what's not and also work with clients and develop concepts. Um, I was going to say otherwise you're the most talented part-time AI person I've ever bloody seen, [laughter] but yeah, it makes a lot more sense that you're doing it in your full-time day job as well and and upskilling people and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. You have to be on top of things. That's why I also do these films. Like I said, it's also always learning experience.

1:39:45 You have to otherwise I know this. It's like if you wait a week, then you're missing like all these models and you kind of have to know like what's possible, what can I use for this client problem and so you have to kind of work with it. Yeah. Yeah, and as I said at the top of the show, it's just so smart that you managed to get content out of all of that because so much of that R&D just gets hidden and nobody ever sees it. So, it's super smart that you're able to make something in it for yourself and stuff. But yeah, everyone's uh loved the session. Thank you so much. Um get your questions in. Go follow Phil everywhere. As I said, he's trying to grow his YouTube uh for the bite pit. So, make sure you follow that. Hybrid portraits is how I found you on Instagram. So, definitely follow that as well. Um, yeah. Straight ones from Glenn. Thanks so much. Thank you so much from California girl.

1:40:31 That was super fun. Yeah. And thanks much for having me. It was great to talk to you finally. I mean, we've been like You're welcome. You're more than welcome. You're our special guest, you know, like for real. It's like we're very honored to do these creator sessions with who we deem to be the best in the world essentially. And you're in you're in the first 10, you know. Um, we've only done 10 of these creative sessions so far on Wednesdays. And yeah, we we plan to do many more. Obviously, let us know who you think deserves to have creative session and stuff. Um, yeah, for sure. I mean, you got to get Zeon Zim. [laughter] We're both dads. I am a new dad, too. I've got two two years old. So, I totally when he told me I'm really busy with my child at the moment, I was like, mate, I understand.

1:41:16 I really understand right now. like so whenever he's available, you know, and uh yeah, I'll I'll get that booked in. And yeah, next year is going to be a mad year because I'm going to Miami in a few weeks where I'm going to meet a whole bunch of new AI creators that I've never met before. So hoping Yeah. to get some new faces, new new things. I need to get over to Asia, though. I'm seeing so many incredible creators that don't even show up in Western social media yet. For sure. Yeah, I think so, too. Yeah. I see like I mean it's kind of hard also there's these bubbles where also in the eyes space there's kind of European bubble there's the Americans but of course Asia and South America has like also some crazy stuff um unfortunately I don't know the name so but you can tell it's kind of like u there's also stuff coming from there it's all different styles isn't it and it's going to like yeah we're going

1:42:06 to see a lot more of it soon because I heard that Billy Billy which is the Chinese YouTube has just become open source to the west so I think that that's going to be first on border between sort of the Asian AI and the European AI and American AI. We'll see though. You should get your stuff on Billy Billy though. Um as soon as you can. Yeah. Yeah. Look into that. Um and if anybody else has got any recommendations about uh new platforms that are opening up for our creators and stuff, definitely let us know in the newsletter. Um oh, I should have said luma.comtheai live show. That's where you'll get the newsletter to see all of the links to stuff we've watched from Phil today. And we also have um the alihow.com. Thank you, Claude. Thank you, Claude Opus, for making our site.

1:42:54 I'm not even going to take credit at this point because that thing is insane. And it's so simple to like use now. And it's a new world for coding and all of this. And happy days. [clears throat] Happy days. All right, guys. We'll see you all again in a future episode. Thank you so much for having me. was