Transcript: Six Weeks, $1,000 a Minute: Henry Daubrez on Making Junkyard King

Henry is here, and why it's episode two, not three

0:05 [music] And we are back live. You may have seen us just yesterday if you were watching our special X-P prize takeover. It's twice a week these days, guys. And we have a very special guest. Thank you so much for joining us, Henry. Um, this episode is brought to you by Invido and thank you so much for Invido for sponsoring this episode. And uh, the Junkyard King is what we're going to be watching and it's made in partnership with Invido. A little bit of context around uh, Henry. Henry is Google Lab's first resident filmmaker and Junkyard King is his 80s set

0:51 series. Today we're actually going to be watching the premiere, the world premiere of episode two. We discussed whether it was two or three, didn't we, in the chat because you had it as episode zero, which turned out to be a pilot, which yeah, makes a lot more sense. So, this is officially episode two, not episode three. And um as always, when it comes to these things, leave your questions throughout the uh show and we're going to be doing a Q&A session at the end. I've been told by producer Paul I need to make these creator sessions a lot tighter, mate. Um, so, you know, I'm going to be doing a lot less gobbling this week and a lot more following the script. We're going to be watching two parts. Um, we're going to be watching it in two parts today and back to back straight away.

1:36 [music] And super excited, like I said, to have Henry on. And we actually met a long time ago. We were just talking about that in the green room. This is theii reunitation of uh Henry and Paul. Pull the producers in the back end. You won't see him, but he is here. Me and Henry met up again at Google IO recently, didn't we? Um, but Andrew, first time meeting Henry. How you doing, Andrew? All good. All good. I'm looking forward to this. This is one of my favorite um videos that I've seen at Junkyard King. So, I'm looking forward to seeing the second one. Such a nice style, isn't it? I've told him all throughout this building that this style is so nostalgic. It's so fun. Um, if you haven't seen Junkyard King, you have to go check it out on YouTube for episode zero and episode 1.

2:21 As I said, we're watching global premiere [music] of episode two today. And uh, where are you joining us from, Henry? Whereabouts in the world are you? Yeah, Mr. Lexi, Utah. Um, oh man, living in Yeah, it's got to change. Last time we wait, so it wasn't at I think last time we met each other was at Upscale Yeah. Was was was was yeah I was still living in Belgium when um at the time of the Coca-Cola meet up. Yeah. Right. Wow. So you took the move out to the USA. Wow. That's awesome. Quite a change. But uh I bet it was quite a change. Yeah. [laughter] I give you from Belgium to USA. It just shows you know so much of our work's been over there though, right?

From Belgium to Utah

3:10 Like um and that's the thing is so many clients, so many AI companies. It's all coming from the USA and us in Europe, we're trying to play catch-up honestly, you know, we're trying to keep relevant and stay on the map and, you know, keep doing our thing. That's why [music] we were trying to do these shows with Europeans, you know, as well as Americans cuz we get to see both sides of the pond and I really love that. [music] And this is episode five of our creator sessions and uh yeah, so happy to have you on, man. Um what we've basically been do what we've basically been doing is watching Junkyard King in our regular show because um you know as as always we curate the best stuff week to week and whenever you posted out episodes of this we were watching the first 5 10 minutes of it and then encouraging people to go and

3:56 watch the rest of it on your YouTube. But now we get to watch a full episode in its full glory and have a full stream around one episode and it's a global premiere which thank you so much for doing that and you know trusting us with the show and you know having it in our hands. I can already see loads of people coming into the comments. We've got the usual suspects Flory B. We've got Perpetual. Thank you so much for joining us from Invido. Loving it. And uh Lara, we've got loads of other people coming in. If you're new to the show, let us know where in the world you're tuning in from. Also, what your interest in generative AI is, what sort of background you've got. If you're working in advertising or film making or music video creation or whatever you're doing, let us know.

4:42 We'd love to know. Already got some big fans of the Junkyard King, which you know, not surprise, mate. Honestly, it's one of the coolest IPs I've ever seen built by anyone. What inspired it? Where did you come to with Junkyard King originally? like is there a theme or a topic that's been floating around in your mind for a while or is it something new? Yeah. So I think it's a bit of both. Uh so when I work on how to put it so when I start using AI like five years ago I think I always try to have a project in the back or like I don't like just doing R&D to do R&D like just doing my you know mindless workflows and just try to see what comes out of it. I like to have a project behind so that you know I can I can build up something and

Where did Junkyard King come from?

5:29 this initially started as a test for seed dance 2 when it came out. So I just wanted to see what the model could uh uh perform and I I had so I always love the idea of using public IP like public domain IP like and like the the legend of Arthur for example is is which is obviously like an inspiration here is an easy one and see how you can twist those stories which has been around for like centuries and see how you can make something which is feeling more personal and more you know whatever like more more interesting I would say than just like copy pasting whatever is existing. So this one started like this. Um I grew up in the somewhere between the 80s and the 90s. Um you know watching movies like uh whatever explorers the Goonies uh anything where like he's outside of the BMX and just you

Building on public domain IP

6:20 know up to no good until nighttime. Yeah. Um, and this is something. Yeah, exactly. I think the nostalgia which loves the bit, right? Like you you I mean I'm surprised that we see, you know, younger folks looking at workman have no idea what it is and how it works and and how you put a tape in this. And so I think it's also like for me interesting to just pull back some stuff. I remember like this yellow workman you want you can see in the um the previous episode already. think uh is something which I I you know I know from personal experience. So I think it's great like it's it's both mixing stuff I like um getting me to dig back in in old experiences and and whatnot. Well that is the second time Andrew we've heard that right because when we had uh our very first episode on Kenny Harry we looked at some of his uh HP Lovecraft stuff and

Why aren't more creators doing this?

7:12 that was stuff out of copyright much like Arthur and everything else. I think this is genius. Truthfully, we said this at the time, right? We're like, why aren't more people doing this? You know, if you're a great visual storyteller, but you really can't do script and plot and stuff like that, then there are great things out of copyright right now that you can actually use as inspiration and many people like Chronicles of Bone did that as well. You know, what made you go for the for the what made you go for the stuff that's just come out of copyright rather than something original? Like was there anything in particular that or Okay. So, at the end of the day, I'm still writing my own script. So, I'm still writing every single episode to make sure that, you know, I go where I want to go. I think I'm just borrowing from the codes which are known from those IPs. So, um, the idea of finding a sword in a in a, you know, in an anvil is something that that that comes directly from the legend

8:00 itself, but then reshaping everything under I think it's also like a matter of trying to build around something people are familiar with because it's been it's been some somehow we ash in different ways like even if even if you look at Star Wars, right, like they pick from those kind of a codes, right? Like the knighthood and and having having those references. So I think it's still very much original in the way like I don't you know I don't take the the the the tail itself and just like copy paste it but I like the idea of using codes people are familiar with because we living in a time where like you have so much content being produced and people are really familiar with MIP like because that's what you know most investment is made that's what you you watch in the theater and having a chance to create something new but then still giving enough to people to to to

8:48 cling to be like okay I I know that I I nobody know what you're talking about. I think that's somehow what Kevin is doing too, right? Like he's putting back characters that people have heard about or have read about. Um but then still does his own thing with it. So that's that's the point. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, nice. Familiar familiarity? I can't even say the word. Why [laughter] invent the wheel? Flory says, you know, and I get that. And I think that nostalgia is something we've been seeing in our shows regularly, mate. Isn't it like more people are making like fan films for like amazing things now? They may not even be out of copyright. That's where it's in some weird waters, you know? Like people are making fan films for things still in copyright and then they're not quite sure exactly where to do it. But out of copyright stuff like HB Lovecraft, like Arthur and others, that's where we know it's safe.

9:38 And they are incredible stories that last the time. And that's, you know, a true tell of how good a story is. If it's hundreds of years old and people still know it, it's like, wow, that has lasted time. And it's a reason that that's such a, you know, memorable and referenceable thing. But yes, um, we have the premiere and we're very excited that you've sent it to us and thanks again. I I wanna, you know, for those that aren't as familiar, I want to dive straight into it, honestly, because there's going to be so many questions after we start watching the first parts and everything like that. Um, the only last question I had to you about this is between episode two and episode 1, is there anything else you could pull off extra?

What changed between Agent One and Agent Two?

10:29 Um, you got agent two, for example, like uh or anything. Was there anything like that stood out as being you can do now? Yeah. Uh not. I mean so for one of I was using agent once. I think you know like it's definitely an evolution between the two models. I think the way I work didn't really dramatically change. U it's very much you know an exchange and trying to see where the model can fit and where the agent can fit. Um but also like and on purpose I can come back on it later but like sometimes just going to close the agent and just like fine tune my myself in the in the composition view. So it's it's very much a back and forth but there was not a huge change of workflow. I think it's just like an improvement I would say in in terms of

11:15 thinking what I do appreciate but agent one was already doing it and agent two is just like a confirmation of of that but I can feed the script and then I can obviously have the the the the model the agent remember everything about the script and everything about the previous episode as well. So the fact that it keeps track of everything we we have done so far and where we have been in the story from uh episode zero to episode two, it's makes it much easier to keep on building. We can I can also like sometimes candidly ask questions to the model and say by the way we've been there and there and there we've been doing this and that. What do you think about this? And um there's always this how you call it pseancy normally with models right like the most most likely going to tell you that you're right whatever you say try to avoid that I try to ask always like from a place of like am I wrong if and or like what do you think or like and keep

12:08 on pushing until I make sure um but yeah so it's very much I think an improvement on on on what I was already doing before but I didn't really change the way I was doing it. Right. That makes so much sense. I just wanted to know because you're so one of these people that put things out so frequently and then obviously the changes can happen so dramatically as we've seen. Um but yeah, with all that being said, let's check it out. Paul, tonight on Junkyard King, new friends. I saw you, Kai. Giant monsters. Teamwork. HOW ARE WE DOING? questionable decisions. [music] And and you pulled it out of an anvil.

JUNKYARD KING, CHAPTER 2: THE NEW GUY

12:54 A little sass, of course. Time to confront him. You know the drill. The name's Arty. I didn't find any radioactive spider and I still have no idea what I am doing. What I do know is that I'm just way too tired.

13:41 Second time this week. Gross. Two nights ago, I found a magic sword in the old switchyard. Good morning, Mr. Jones. Since then, I've met a talking crow, fought a giant scrap monster, opened a doorway to another world, and somehow ended up responsible [music] for rescuing a bunch of missing kids. So, today's problem should be easy. I just have to convince my best friend to keep his mouth shut. And here he is. Idiot. I saw you, Kai. Saved by the bell. We'll have a talk later, Kai.

14:30 At the yard, I found a wrench with Kai's name on it. But I also watched him try to sneak away and trip. That's when I knew Kai hates confrontation. We've been friends for years and I know I just need to wait until the right time and give him a little push. Bingo. And now he's ready to talk. Stay with me after class.

15:29 I saw your name on a wrench. And I saw you trip leaving the yard. I don't know what yard you mean. The switchyard just last night. I'm not a night person, Kai. How much trouble am I in? That depends on what you did with what you heard. Nothing. I swear I didn't tell anyone. Kai, I heard a little. Okay. I saw very bright flashes of pink light coming from the yard two nights ago, and I came to check what's up, only to find you talking to a mechanical crow thingy. I I I didn't hear much, though. Anything else?

16:19 A crazy lady in armor. Another world on the other side of the air. The town's missing kids that you're going to go get them back. That's all I got. Kai, I swear on my walkie. I won't say anything. I just I don't want you doing the scary thing alone. Okay. Okay, listen. There are rules. First, you do what I say when I say it, which means no questions in the middle of something. And you need a better story for your parents than I was at the switchyard at midnight. I have a cousin in Oakidge.

17:06 I I think I can work with that. Meet me at the yard after school alone. Do I get to see the sword? Yes. Yes. [screaming] Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Kai's my best friend. He's not exactly fearless and people tend to underestimate him. Him and I go way back and he never ever let me down.

17:52 The thing is, when things go sideways, he adapts faster than anyone I know. He doesn't complain. He doesn't walk away. He just figures it out. Sorry. Got to get up there, guys. He's relentless. And if you've got him in your corner, you're lucky. [gasps] [sighs] It took you long enough. Come on, let's go.

18:39 So, this is where it happened. Yeah. I definitely wasn't here before. I I know you were here before. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually real. Don't I I wasn't going to touch it. The surface isn't reflecting light the way steel should. What's the alloy? I don't know. And you pulled it out of an anvil? Yeah, of course. This isn't an amusement park, you know. Oh, hey, Socket. What's up? [screaming] And this is Hi, Socket.

19:30 Socket Kai. He's in that. That's the the with a speaker in it. Breathe, kiddo. Um, I'm sorry. Is the bird being sassy with me now? I'm not a bird. You are a bird. Are we doing this? You are a bird and we're doing this. Fine. All right. Here's the thing. To get those kids back, I first need to make a door. Well, every excal wielder eventually wants this, but it's also the thing most of them can't do. How do these doors actually work? Let me explain. When she came through to mark you, idiot. It wasn't the blade cutting through dimensions. A door opens only when it resonates [music] with the world's own note.

20:20 You pulled the blade from the anvil and made every frequency ring at once. So, it's a frequency. The blade resonates at a specific frequency and the door opens. And right now you're brute forcing it, blasting everything until the world answers. If I calibrate this right, I could maybe hear the resonant note and tell you the exact moment you've hit it. The civilian has a point. Not a civilian. Well, let's try then. All right, guys. Stay behind, please. It might get bumpy.

21:09 Come on. I can do this. H. It didn't work. That was way too much. Then how? Like water, kid, not fire. Feel for it. And whatever you do, don't blast through this time.

21:55 Like water. Like water. Like water. Like water. It's working. Keep going. I'm trying. That was close. Come on, kid. I know you can do this. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Well, I guess I'll sleep later. I think I got it. Try again. Much later.

22:44 How are we doing? A little more. I can't hold it anymore. Too much. Kai, socket, are you all right? I'm all right. I think. Kid, you really got to

23:45 Not again. Looks like I opened all the frequencies. You overdid it again, kid. Two signals. It's the hollowed and the door frequency. They're right on top of each other. I can't hold on to the wall key. [screaming] Kid, figure something out. I cannot hold him for long. To the right. To the left. [screaming]

24:42 Leave my friends alone. [crying] K. Where's the frequency? You're nearly there, Arty. Just a little. [screaming] Like water. Like water. Like water.

25:30 Found it. It worked. Heat. Heat.

26:16 See you. Okay. Did I get lucky? Yes. Did I know what I was doing also? Yes. Hey guys, you opened a door [panting] in the middle of that. You used it to like you didn't fight it. You just moved. Yeah, that's actually kind of genius. It really was, kid. So, what do we do now? Try not to open anything for 5 minutes. What about you? I'm making sure that thing didn't bring friends.

27:05 Hello [music] One step at a time. One step at [music] a time. I trust my fire. I keep it in line. One step [music] at a time. One step at a time. I shut the bed [music] out. I don't let it ride. Amazing. Yes, that music at the end was so like let's go with the guitars, mate. Wasn't that what we were missing yesterday, Andrew? You said no animation entries into the X-P prize, and I told you just wait till today

First reactions

27:53 because this is probably the best animation I've ever seen made with AI. I really mean that too, Henry. It's It's amazing, mate. So watchable, so h and a great hook for the next episode as well. You're thinking episodically. I can see it like um it's really really really smart stuff. What are your thoughts, Andrew? My god. Yeah, like I said, amazing. I love animation. I think by far this is the best animation I've seen. I love the style. I'd love to hear how you break it down, which we'll ask uh shortly. Um but everyone in the chat, if you've got any questions, please put them in the chat. If you've got any questions for Henry about anything what we've just seen, put them in the chat and we'll be asking we'll be asking about. You're getting a one here from California girl because that's our regular, you know, we have polling on our regular show for like one this is awesome, two, okay, three, not for me.

28:43 Obviously, you're a special guest and we're not going to be doing polling because we've selected you as one of the best in the in the world at doing this. Um, so there is no polling today for those of you that may be voting in the chat, but yeah, hilarious that you got a one regardless. Oh, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. As you said, mate, this part I had ET vibes from it as well. You know, the bike, the like basket, the sort of the camera like, you know, rolling through the Yeah. The loads of 90s references as well. Loads of even like the way the school is and stuff like that. It's just very like the classroom and everything. Got loads of interactions of the characters too, you know. It all feels like nostalgic, you know. So, I love these like pierced earrings as well.

29:29 I love the character designs each one of the characters and their their their voices. Uh there's lots of questions coming in. Now, talking of voices, Anita said, "How did you keep the voices consistent?" Yes. So, there's a few things. Um, one thing which is interesting is and I I noticed this on the first episode. I have no idea exactly why the model is doing that, but it tends to once you nail a voice of a character like once you get into a place and you keep on working on the same environment, I don't know why it does seem the models keeps on delivering a similar voice. That was the first part of it which is which is really funny because it's not I don't think it's by design. I think it just happens. It might be based on the assets and how he interprets the asset and what it looks like and then it's like okay it should sound like that.

How do you keep the voices consistent?

30:17 Um so there's there's one I'm telling you how he actually literally told us that he said if you put a mustache on your character it will sound totally different and that was his pro tip. It was literally like whatever you do I bet the earrings changed the voice slightly of the character and certain assets that you gave him. I'm sure of it. But so what's interesting is so like the voice he got from the from the getgo like like one of the first generation starting to sound like um I forot his name uh Anton Anthony who sadly passed away I don't know if you remember him he was an actor in I mean that I think it's because role was in Star Trek when they did the reboot a few years ago he was a young I think he was some Russian descent but he was like super up and coming and then he died like really stupidly by his place but long story short he had a very unique big voice and I like the idea that this voice was somehow similar.

31:08 So I tweaked a little bit. So what I'm doing mostly [clears throat] I usually use the model if it's if it's right but for every character I always go back to 11 Labs I'm training a clone and so two ways to use it. One of them is I just take the delivery from the videos because they're working well and like the video when it generates like there's this kind of a ination which I mostly like and so I'm going to use the voice changer in 11 labs to transform based on the I have so that I can get the same delivery. What's funny is that the last so on this episode I started doing something different. Instead of like doing voice by voice and and bit by bit, I would compose a big chunk and I would export the entire audio track at once, voice change it from the start of video to the to a standpoint,

The one-pass voice change trick

31:55 voice change the entire thing like five, six, seven minutes straight and bring it back in the editor and then just recut exactly where I know they were talking. So instead of having to manually adjust one by one, the fact that I take a big chunk which starts at the very start of my video at at zero seconds means that I don't have to start synchronizing. It's exactly the right place from the get go. I just have to remove everything where it's not necessary. So I'm doing this for Kai and for RT they have their individual voices. Um and then for the crow there's this socket. Um, I'm using a voice from 11 Labs which sounds kind of a al snape like you know pumpus feature and I'm using this one but I'm I'm

32:43 um the voice like I make it sound like it comes from another speaker on purpose. I want it to feel this kind of a you know lowfi kind of thing. Um all the the how it's called like the the noise you hear afterwards sounding like a like a walkie-talkie is something which I add manually ever after each delivery. So it's a bit of you know we work on each voice to make it sound right. Um but yeah mostly if it's not working also like last thing if the voice changer doesn't work sometimes it's just doing weird results. I'm going to do text to speech and I'm going to manually rethink everything line by line and I just remove the uh manual work to to get it right. Yeah. Right. Well, I have a followup question. Yeah. Yes. Right at the beginning when it was like previously this is what I've been up to.

33:33 I even like that bit. I thought that was cool as well the way it started. That's why I said it's so good episodic. He's thinking about the hooks for the next episode and the way to introduce it. It's a really nice flow you've got now already by episode two. Actually, one of the questions that we had um and we're going to get to all of your questions later. Paul is starring them in the chat. I can see Martin. I can see Danny. I can see other people leaving questions. One of our questions though was there a particular moment in this episode because there was a lot going on that you were most nervous about landing, you know, was there a scene that you were like, oh, which I'm I'm going to get stuck here. It's not. So if I look at the script, it's not what I expected to get. So one thing first, like and you saw the credit at the end. So on this episode, the first time I I hired someone to help me in the on the project.

Which scene was he most nervous about?

34:20 So was Judy Wland and you most likely already know how it work. And so we divided some of the scenes and the one the bathroom uh where they they discussed for quite a while. Yeah. Julie took it from the get-go. And I was afraid of that because it's it's a lot of dialogue, a lot of exchange. Uh, and the fact that they you can have like whatever like three minutes of people talking in the same place without really moving around like it's super boring. And so there was very much of like this idea of like it goes and they close the tap and then he turns and one has to pull back and it's going to make one step forward. And you have to keep them in track with their position in the room at all time which is like a lot of work because you know how the model work if you just give the ingredients if you don't re reconnect with their their position for that very specific line you lose it.

35:05 And so this I expected it to be like a huge pain. I mean it wasn't easy but Julie did pretty well and I think that was nailed like in the first week. Um it was and also David of the lines and how they were. So we would she would send me a draft we would discuss about it like hey this delivery could be different or like this moved or like we had issues when when they would get in the room initially or like when the the camera would go through the window which was an idea of Judy which I think was great um all the Ps were open and just not one and so some of those elements of like trying to re regenerate again again we would uh use video to video on CD 2.5 uh first on 2.0 OB 3.5 was just available I think to to correct those things to say like okay let's let's close all the tabs and then

35:51 um it would not manage to close only four tabs out of five it would close all the tabs but it doesn't matter I would just like add a mask afterwards and just make sure that one is so those modifications help so that that was the one I thought would be the most complicated in the end was kind of okay the one I didn't expect to be that complicated was actually the entire escape from the legs of the creature like so when it starts walking and then you want us to you basically avoid the legs because you [clears throat] cannot get this right over like 15 seconds if possible even multi-shot to break down. So you have to get it party right over enough generation so that you can then stick those pieces together. But it's a lot of movement to open it very fast. Um is the body the fact that he's leaning on the left you want the next shot to be still leaning on the left before it goes on the right. You cannot just switch on the one because your brain doesn't compute that. Same for the legs. If the legs are on the wrong wrong place and the way they move in the in the yard the yard has to be consistent.

The scene he didn't expect to be hard

36:45 So I had different angles for the yard. Um, but then I would pull I would pull one, but then if the character obviously is turning, then I would have to pull the other one. But then you still have to communicate what's left. So that scene I remember like spending a couple of days on it um and making like 10 seconds, 15 seconds of it and being frustrated because that just wasn't moving forward. And um um that was a complicated one. Um even with the agent like doing back and forth and saying, "Hey, by the way, this is what I got." like this is this is a backward and in the wrong direction and this this this at this point I'm not I'm fine tuning the promise manually but I'm not writing the first draft myself it's ridiculous like don't do that um but even with the model like telling me okay that might be that try this there are still a lot of things which are not working out until I you know this weird process with

37:36 prompting for me where like if he's very much like alchemy and you throw at it until at some point something works. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that Martin had a very specific question about whether you do multi-shot or individual shot. So, that kind of answers that. I guess it's like try different things in different scenarios and see what works and then double down on the on the one that works. So, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Everyone comes to their own conclusions and has their own sticking points. I'm so glad we asked that question because uh as someone like works on highlevel projects, it is surprising the bits that you get stuck on and don't get stuck on. Some people think, "Oh, the action is really intense in that scene." And that was like a 30 second sea dance 2.5 oneshot now. It's kind of insane. And then the dialogue scenes with more than two characters

38:22 even though they're still in a bathroom could actually be the much harder thing. And you don't like intrinsically understand this as as someone that's not doing it all the time, you know. Uh so very interesting. And there for the question of a random t-shirt, um I used it and it's great. You can do 15 seconds or even 30 seconds now. Although I couldn't use C dance 2.5 the quick note because I tried it when it got released for that. Yeah, it would change the static a little bit like the the it's hard to explain like the the the final image has different kind of polish so you would see it. So I have to leave it aside but um the more So she does 2.0 is more like keeping the aesthetic for your exact animations. They both would keep it really well. Just that the one of 2.5 which might be what I what I want to have like felt even more like a 80s 90s

Why ask for five to eight-second shots?

39:11 thingy like those shows you love early days CGI in the 90s or early let's say early 2000s which were like still 2D but bringing some 3D elements in there like it it did feel like that like the remix but it would just be too different from everything I produced so far. So I had to let it leave it on the back. Next episode I might move to 2.5 depending on that. But the one thing is I I think it's great that you can do 30 seconds now when I give it 15. But the more it goes and the more I use, you know, I'm going to change 15, but I'm going to use like 5 seconds. And a lot of the times I'm going to ask on purpose four five I think. Let's say five to eight seconds shots maximum because the model tends to stretch first to get right. I don't want to have like four shots and throw everything away. Like I prefer to have like one really good shot and use it. But also the model tends to stretch based on the time you ask it to do.

40:01 So if I ask for a delivery of a line in 15 seconds, the delivery is not going to be snappy because it's going to stretch over 15 seconds. So I want it to be timed based on what I want to get from it. If I want it to be snappy and fast, I'm going to on purpose reduce so it's faster to generate. So I'm winning on both fronts. Yeah. Well, it's so interesting like um we we talk a lot about this process and like agents are different, right? And agent one and agent two which is what you've been using here for inv video. Have you got something to show us actually like is there a way of you sharing up your screen and like um because for those that are in un uninitiated and haven't tried in video it is a truly unique agent experience. One of the things you said earlier which really struck a chord with me is loading the script in and having it memorized throughout the entire session.

Screen share: the script

40:48 So for a lot of people that just go to a regular thing, you know, just a oneshot video platform, essentially you're going to have to give it your context every single time in every single prompt, and it's just not the way that you do things inside of like an Invido style project because you load all that stuff up initially and then you can have a long dialogue question with it, you know, after the fact. Um, I think we've got it to bring up onto stage here, Paul. Um, I think he's sharing it. Uh, can we bring it up? Oh, there we go. Awesome. So, a couple of things with you. First, maybe to explain where starting from, I'm going to share this tab. You see it, right? You see my Yeah, perfect. So,

41:34 here's a script for the episode. Um, so like for the fact, so pages were like 15 minutes. I think next time I will try to maybe reduce a little bit because it was an insane amount of work. But the way it works and is this where you start? Sorry to interrupt. Is the script where you start step one? So script first. You're a script first. You're not generating base images or anything like that or you're just going straight script first? Yes, because so two things. First, I already assets. I'm going to show them afterwards as well. Uh that that's one side of it. Second side is like as long as I don't have a script, it's hard to know what I'm going to, you know, do. Yeah. So, um I have this this script in here which which if you read it, you see there some differences between what's in the script and what in the final. So as I go I I also make some modifications in the in the in the dialogues in how things are delivered in some of the scenes um simply because like it just feels better and sometimes

42:22 like on the script it feels good and then I look at it like no actually that doesn't work like the delivery doesn't work or like the the chemistry or like how it should end like the ending of the radio was actually like the the work key wasn't wasn't in the script it was part of the next episode somehow. So I bring it up because I thought it was a better hook to to end it. So and the scripts. So as you can see I started marking everything uh for each scene based on the environment we already had. So I shared everything with Judy when we started saying hey that's episode one do assets that's where I worked I shared everything uh and how I was doing it the last time but also flag because you said you mentioned earlier that this is your first time working with someone on this. So, you've done all of the previous episodes solo and now you're having to share amongst other people. And is that changed anything in your sort of workflow? Would you do this ordinarily

Working with someone else for the first time

43:11 or is this just because you're now working with an additional person? Uh I would I think I would do it not that as cleanly. I would I wouldn't like I don't think I would like every line and make sure that which is like just good good you know it's it's it's healthy to do it like it's a good opportunity. Of course it makes a handover, right? you have to like really perfect your handover. So yeah, I'll just ask that question because yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, me Paul don't have to do that handover process, you know, it's generally and it's interesting. It's so fascinating to see how you've changed the script to make it hand overable with notes and everything else like that and it gives you a much bigger end product as you said. It's kind of wild. You find it easier to do it this way or just different? No, I always You mean marketing it? Yeah, just making like a video.

44:00 Do you find it easier to do it this way or do you find it easier to do it the I say traditional but the way you've been doing it for the last couple of years using AI? I mean obviously this is I mean easier than the word I think it's just that the fact that I can squeeze a team of like many people uh just on my own because obviously I'm using a tooling which makes it possible I think is a real magic to me. It doesn't mean it's less work. It's it's a lot of manual works a lot of stuff. I always struggle to just say it's it's work because I know that anyone in the traditional industry is going to jump on that saying like try animating this on your own and you see what work is. I think it's just like moving the debate to different placements again and deflecting the fact that um I'm multiplying task I'm multiplying caps using the tool it's still work even if I'm having fun it's I like it whatever it still work it's just not their

It's still work, it's just not their work

44:49 work. So I think it's different. M um but yeah so for the for the the environment if you want to see so um I think I said agent it started in agent one and then the upgrade to agent to happen at some point to here so it's weird maybe it remarked after but I think at some point there was a transition but long story short um just for environment I'm still your script though are you my bad there you go yeah there we go sorry um maybe side note like the previous episode was already using agents So what I just did is like archive the ones I from the previous episodes just to keep it clean. But when I'm working on a on the project I I know each agent normally has a very specific task and I I also know that they can so because I say that this one is going to

Separate agents and vertical fillers

45:34 do a script that is going to just focus on scripting. It can also generate. So um I don't break them down as much as I should. I think it's once again kind of a healthy thing to do if you want to keep things clean somehow. So for example uh not for this episode but in between episodes I'm doing vertical feeders. Um, so I've been working on on those captures because I like the idea to work on a on a 16 uh 169 format for everything which is in between which is not moving the plot forward but just building the word and so I have an agenda for that because the prompt is like different and the way it's going to if I prom the way I do for uh the normal episodes it's not going to deliver as much um dynamism as I could see. So I'm going to separate that. That's another common theme.

46:19 Andrew um at Gossip Goblin told us the exact same thing. You know, his Instagram reels in his 9x6 is totally different to his 16x9 world. And he hasn't it's like same thing, you know, building the law but not changing the plot and not, you know, it's all in the same world and the same characters and yet it's still like aimed at a different vertical audience and vertical storytelling. Very cool, man, that you're thinking this way. It's very good strategically. actually you're two of the only people we've seen do this you know have a specific vertical strategy to drive the it's really smart I think it's and also I think it's less about the vertical itself for me at least um I mean obviously like people are used to consume vertical so that that's one thing but wait a climbing on me there you are but it's more about the fact that as you deliver even if you deliver like every four four weeks to six weeks

47:13 I mean and I hate that part of it right like but that's a social media game like you you stop existing if you stop posting and it's not really possible to keep on posting so I like the idea of having a different format so people can really distinguish what's an episode and what's not but also obviously explain the world but also just stay relevant throughout the thing until you post the next big bigger thing and that's it right you just nailed it unfortunately algorithms these days if you don't frequently add to them will just see infrequent you know things and then degrade you or downgrade you so when you put all this effort into your long form stuff. It might just fall flat if you're not keeping up to date like and it doesn't have to be daily. It just needs to be something more frequent than your long form, you know, which is problem with that though is that it forces people to just create crap because they just we need

48:02 a whole bunch of stuff because the algorithms and then and then they're like wonder why there's so much AI slop about when you've got exactly great stuff like this. You're right. And that's the way I'm trying to get the ner. So even on the on the fillers, I'm trying to have a short story which is going to be between 30 and 45 seconds which is not moving on the platform but which is still having a start and an end. It's not just like let's start with a fight and that's you know there's nothing else to it. Um so the last one I think there was actually kind of a foreshadowing what's happening here like was the tall future they were fighting in the yard but then it was a dream he wakes up in class and that's everyone makes fun of him and that's the end of it. So it's also like a nice way to bring you know clues about what's going to happen but if you don't watch them that's fine you can just follow the rest.

Feeding the bible, shot by shot

48:49 Um but so for the agent to come back on this um the way I work as you can see is that I'm going to feed the script I'm going to ask hey let's start first um I used to ask the agent to just generate but then I would get a lot of stuff which is not exactly what I wanted because which makes sense right you can ask it to be in your head which is not really working out um but so as I always upload the asset and say hey this is my bible so those are my characters those are my environments this is this this is that this is the script um I'm going to start working uh shot by shot. So, so uh literally either asking the model to uh correct itself or if I feel like it's going to be too ambitious, I'm going to copy paste on my own script and say that part which I just gave you earlier said from that line to that line, we're going to work on that scene first.

49:34 Um and before generating I'm going to ask to um give me the prompt give me the the assets so that I don't generate for things. So what you can see in here for a scene just divided in shots. I say like maximum 15 seconds by shot. So, as you can see in here, there's a 12. I guess this should be a 15. I don't even give it to me. It's weird. Yeah. Just to explain that to anyone that doesn't understand agents. Essentially, if you don't ask it to type the prompt it's going to write, it will just generate it and not even tell you the actual prompt that it's using. So, that's a way of like being able to see and visually, you know, give the approval to the actual text being correct and stuff like that. Just to explain that to people that haven't used the agents or anything like that yet. You're right. Did you bring your did you bring your characters to this agent? Like were they built previously

50:22 or um did you create the characters as well in in inv video? I'm going to share my screen screen. It'll be easier so I can show perfect. So if you look at my assets there you go. Um if you look at that's my asset folder for the project. So we built as we were going but some things were already ready. Like if you look at RT for example here I I have the sheet for RT there was an issue initially so I had to fix in Photoshop and make sure it was right but also this exists in different shapes. So if I go back in here in Photoshop this one is a simple one. Uh I just had to at some point uh as you can see add the headphones. But if you look at the previous episode it was existing like in clean in in clean in dirty in dirty with headphones dirty with so in the back and dirty without so in the back.

Screen share: the asset folder

51:11 So for each different state the character is in I'm going to make a sheet so that I can I can put it when I need it. Uh because you could use the reference of the the the the workman separated for example but then size going to vary position is going to vary the the the way even the design sometimes going to be slightly different. So you want you want to nail as much as you can and keep it clean from the get go so that when you pull that sheet you know that it's it's going to be the right one. Um, but then that's awesome. So you have like a master base sheet basically and then you're adding extra layers like headphones and scruffing. That's [clears throat] really really smart. Exactly. So it was a clean it was a clean master and then you're building the layers of extra stuff on top and then exporting that from the master. Is that what is that how it works? Yes, exactly. That's awesome. So the clean one and then you bring So in in the agent I'm going to upload the different sheets and different states and I'm going to call them when I need them.

52:02 That's why I'm asking the model to give me before generating um which reference is going to pull because it might have the wrong sheet. It might be like think that it's one and the other one and then I can correct it like wait no let's use this one instead. Um but if you look at the rest it's all environ so there's two things there's objects obviously so look at the this one uh you want the object to be right so you're going to to have a separate sheet for that there's all environments so all different states uh which which you need if different light sources. That's so smart. Moon, no moon. Like, yeah, of course. That's so smart. So, you're going to make everything evolve. But is this which I think is interesting to bring up. So, sometimes, how do you put it? As you appearances and people are moving in space,

Screenshotting the scene for context

52:48 um the model is going to take decisions on its own. You want sometimes to be able to build up from where the model got. And if I if I basically just use the images again, just the whatever references I have, it might end up in different place. It might end up just being different. It might change the angle slightly. And so a lot of my process is actually taking screenshots from scenes where I am to build the next shot, not as a continue thing. So I'm not necessarily going to use that shot to continue. It's just telling the model, this is where he is now. That's what's behind him. That's what he looks like. That's kind of lighting on which is on his face. But we're going now to ask for a close-up shot or an ECO shot or like a side shot but looking somewhere else. But I'm going to feed this plus references so that it knows where it is at this moment in time.

53:34 And there's a lot of that which happens throughout when I need to pick up from a certain place in the environment. That's like a context folder, isn't it? It's like giving the model the context of where the scene is and yeah, the lighting conditions, the backgrounds. That's really really really smart. And it follows really well. Yeah, it does. you know, you've found this process, like I said, and it's very unique to you. We haven't seen anyone else break it down like this in any of the crazy sessions so far. Yeah, it's it's really unique and you've just come you've come to the understanding of what you need to do, you know, like what you're finding as issues and then building in context to fix those issues and it's just like re really smart problem solving. So, really appreciate you explaining that to the audience. I mean, yeah, really really cool. Well, first I mean to be fair. I think like it's not I mean if it helps it's great. I I

54:23 like to think that my value is on what I want to say and how I want to say it. Uly there's a lot of time which went into like figuring those things out. Um something I want to show actually for that like to make the process simpler the the the agent can automatically export a frame like you can say start from last frame and it's going to use internally their tool which things like ffmpeg which is I guess behind like a layer of UI but to extract the last frame but what I'm doing I I have coded a tool on on Google AI studio for that to just um to just extract the frame. So I would give it a video say which distance between the frames I want to have and it's going to extract them automatically and I can download them which is going to take 1080p. So that's what I'm also doing regularly is like okay I'm going to bring that that video I'm going to try that frame because I want to use it later and I'm doing my sports that way using this this thing where I can

Vibe coding a frame extractor

55:15 and this goes exactly with what Albert said last session Andrew right he did exactly the same with magnific realized it didn't exist he needed a thing he vibe coded a tool he made to talk to Magnificol he just solved his own problem with vibe coding and again I think this is a pattern we're going to see more and more it's like um especially Henry who's actually worked at Google, you know, and so he has a really good understanding of how the Google other AI tools work as well. Um, and yeah, a question that came up quite a lot. Um, but Lara, I'll read from Lara. She said, "How much time does it take to make each episode?" Oh, yeah. That's a good one. Stop sharing for a second. Um, so this episode was around uh I would say 6 weeksish.

How long does an episode take, and what does it cost?

56:01 Um 6 weeksish. Days are long. Um we start, you know, around 8 until like 4 p.m. And then take a break because my son is back from school. Um and then take back a few hours in the evening. Then Julie Julie was helping on this one, but like she was mostly parttime because she has she has a very little one uh and some vacation got take in between. So I would say between the both of us is maybe seven eight weeks in man time of work. Um and then in cost because someone someone asked at some point uh I think and this always comes down. It's hard to obviously you know I have credits which are spending and so sometimes they being I have to ask the video team to top top them up but uh I my best guess so far is around $1,000 a minute finished

56:50 which is not nothing if you count that you know technical video doesn't cost you that much by 15 seconds. But to my point, um, I'm going to take my my Premiere file to show you the the the edit. It's there's still a lot of cutting and pasting and going different places. And, uh, yeah. Um, the one thing where I shot my own foot with this character is that because I could do it in any short film I did I've done before. My my trick was always like if I shot was like slightly badly wrong direction, I would just flip it and nobody would notice because there was nothing really to recognize the character was flipped. This one is different because there's a mirror image. You mean like I see. Yes. Okay. Smart. Again, a great problem solve. But yeah, you've you dug yourself into a hole that you can't do that this time. Exactly. How annoying. How annoying. But also the characters are worth it.

The mirror problem

57:39 You know, the extra details are, you know, worth it. The extra hassle, I think. So, if you look at this, there's I mean, there's a lot going on in 15 minutes. Um, that's a timeline right there. I mean, I could have I could have like simplified it before the call, but I could do this, but like to for the sake of showing how messy he is at some point. Um, you have the all the green ones that must be voices, which are overlapped. Um, there's the SFX, which I'm going to add on top. There's the ambient layers. Uh, there's the music obviously. Um, they're going to be like the small one for um sockets. So for example, when he talks, as mentioned before, you will have his deliveries and you will have the small sound. Yeah. This your radio noise.

Screen share: the Premiere timeline

58:26 Yeah, your extra little uh FX. I love it. Exactly. Did you get them? Did you get them from stock or did you generate them as well? Because I know that there's like Oh, it's Oh, it's stock. Smart. It's stock. But for example, something I I've done in the past and so when I recorded the voice of RT when I when the model had the voice which I found interesting, I regenerated um a shot a 15 seconds shot asking the character to be to be talking in a in a studio environment uh with no other sound, the ambience, whatever. And and I would give it like for 15 seconds of lines. Um which is which indeed like gave me the cleanest version I could get of him delivering the line so I can then do a proper clone. Um so th those things are initially generated and then and then I mean we generated 11 laps but from from from the clone

59:14 uh but if you come back to look at all just the audio layers alone Andrew isn't it crazy you know it's like some people's like timelines don't even have this video you're giving so much information Henry I'm I always have a pen and a and a paper with me I'm just taking notes taking notes so much information and you're seeing it in the chat as well they're loving it, you know, as well. Um, but yeah, audio layers a lot. Like I'm always fading from one layer to the other one so I can overlap stuff and then if something is happening in one scene, uh, like the the the noise of one scene might might be bleeding on the other one so that it feels less like I go from one place to the other one, but also like they're all in the same environment and the same things happening just at different volume. So I'm going sometimes to just push the the layer of the different one but like just lower the volume because it's somewhere is is

1:00:06 further. So for example when he's in the water because he got protected uh which is uh before uh when he says are you all right the voice which is above is actually from the previous video it's from where was it from here. So I use that voice but I just like duplicated and use the volume so that we can hear it from here. Uh and it sounds distur. So there's a lot of like small tricks of like how can you use the footage you have to make it sound right. It's really really cool and again really appreciate you showing us even in the timeline version like this um outside of the agent when you've got all your clips you know how you're doing post-prouction stuff to make those extra little details that really count you know they really stand out.

1:00:52 It really does. So I think there's no real magic just to show you something else. Like I still go back sometime to u I could do this all of this in in videos. That's not really a problem. I think it's more like uh as you mentioned right like I've been working with Google for a year as a film making resident meaning I'm pretty comfortable using flow which is very straightforward and easy to use as well. And so, but so for for to go fast on some iterations for some modifications, I'm going to go back in here, use flow because it's fairly straightforward and then go back to Photoshop to repreprepare the different assets or like to clean them up or to to give different states I want to have. U if you look at the the yard itself, I different versions of it before getting to the to the final ones as well. Same same for restrooms like we had some clean up to do and so on and so forth.

How were the characters designed?

1:01:39 A question that come has come up quite a bit. I don't know if you've answered it already. Um, so Florie said, "In which platforms do you create the original character?" And then Zachariah said, "Which AI model do you use to generate the reference sheets?" Yeah. So, I'm looking at my notebook here. Mostly I sketch. So before getting on a story or character and and I would have to find back my my sketchbook but I have always um a draft of each character like what they going to look like was it going to be which is somehow far from what we have and then if I look at those I think it was a love back and forth between a love uh or not that many in the end but I think the very first draft of RT was on Mijony and then Nano Banana where I fixed a lot of stuff then Photoshop

1:02:27 and then funnily enough I did I did the other way around. I brought back the nana banana one which tends to be I mean the model is great but it tends to go to an average somehow. I brought it back in um in mid journey. So I kind of recipe between like um references of of assets um sref um and and my own profile from from just reading stuff. And so what I would do is that I would bring my my image from banana. I would ask um maj to describe it like I use the describe thing. So it gives me a prompt based on that image and I would get both plus all my recipe of all the the s whatever I have. What's interesting is that each model reads things differently. That's why I want to do describe because mid journey reads things differently than the banana.

Midjourney /describe and the reinforcement loop

1:03:13 So that's and a great little tip again just to hold on that if you don't know and you've used midjourney as well as back slash imagagine which is text added text and then you get an image you can do back dash describe drop an image and it will you know look at that image and describe it in text which most people when I used to do my midjourney workshops had no idea that there was multiple ways to use midjourney like this. So yeah it's a really another great little tip. I just wanted to highlight that because yeah, you're basically reinforcing and reinforcing and reinforcing, aren't you? Like you've started in a loose thing midjourney, tightened it up with nano banana, gone all the way back around again to midjourney with back slash describe and then tightening it all up again. It's just reinforcing and then adding character references, adding more, adding lures, adding profile training, adding all of that is really smart.

1:04:02 Rory's the only one that's really showed me that where he's like really built like heavy Loras based on his style references and his image references and he was the midjourney king back in the day. But yeah, we met and talked at that like midjourney version three time remember like midjourney 4 and we saw that whole rise and everything changed and then when profiles came in and and now everyone's trying to do this, you know, I'm seeing local Laura training. I'm seeing Korea do this. I'm seeing others. It's mad. It's really good tips. Really good tips, mate. Yeah. And your process is so unique to you. You know, you've got the ability to use all of these different AI tools and Photoshop and all of these other tools to just reinforce and reinforce. This is why though, Andrew, it makes so much sense why this is the best animation we've seen because it's just a reinforcement, isn't it?

1:04:48 It's like he's got so much going on to reinforce this through his abilities prior to AI as well as his AI abilities. And I think that's what Albert and stuff showed us too. It's the same like just sheer like skill. It's it's awesome to see. As you said, it is work, mate. You know, this isn't like do not get this miscon. We're seeing hundreds if not thousands of generations scripts. We're seeing all of it. And it's all work. You know, I don't know how people can conflate that at this point to not call that work. Going from AI to then going to Photoshop. So you're still going back to the skills that you've you that you've exactly had for many years and then going into Premiere to build it. And so it's not like so many people think it's a you not necessarily people listen to this show but you write a prompt and then you get a featurelength film [laughter] like

1:05:42 just ridiculous to stone in in in the 90s and then you create a film like it's not as straightforward as that. Um, so yeah, it's great to see what you've done, Henry. And even everyone in the everyone in the in the chat, you some really good questions that you've put. Um, here's a good question from it's Mary, one of our one of our regulars. She said, "Where do you see most AI creators failing when trying to scale a short concept into a longer featurelength film format?" And she's even put it in French. Is that French? Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's French. Um, so sorry French. No. Um yeah, so I think it's good because you just actually you just mentioned it. I think one of the issues right now is you as the models are getting better like I think C dance is I mean obviously like it's still one of the best models in the market right now for that very specific

Where do creators fail scaling short to long?

1:06:32 need. um what's happening and what I do notice that there's a kind of new wave of of creators using AI who are indeed 200% there for the social media game and they just churning 15 second shots of or like sequences of people just finding the wood and whatever and they think this over and over and over and over again and also they're pretty vocal and they're pretty and it somehow works because they build a social media following but people start to conflate social media following for actually like knowing what you're doing and that personally annoys me having in this space five years and still remembering when you had to do voice over everything because there was no way to do a proper narration if you explain what's going on. Um and so I think the reason why people fail I don't think it's I mean fail is hard to to define. I think depend what you're trying to achieve. If you try to achieve a bigger social media following just do that.

1:07:23 What annoys me, what triggers me these days is there's less effort being put towards storytelling and I try what I've been showing today. I know it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work like just trying to make things fit like the dialogues and and the storytelling and and the making sure that somehow the object didn't just flip hands suddenly. Most people who do those generations, they don't they don't care. Like it's like an object is there and it's there and then the thing's there and then something just change color between two shots. But most viewers don't care. they just rush and they're like amazing and I I wanted to watch, you know, this this this reboot of whatever IP which we know and so I think it's personal to me. I think I'm more interested I mean obviously having having viewership and and following is part of the

1:08:09 game today because distribution is still what makes you exist. So, it's important, but I think I could make a lot more. I could build much faster by just doing those 20 second sequences. Of course, of course. And the end goal is where are you going to exactly like what do you want to go with? That's why it's so smart to build long form, but then have a short form strategy. You know, that's the real trick of it. instead of it being oh my whole strategy is short form which is like you know and and to call the 20 second clip short form at this point they're one prompt you know literally these are literally one shot seance 2.5 oneshots now so yeah we I I'll tell you some interesting things that might feel make you feel a bit better so I was reading a really interesting article just

The attention span argument

1:08:59 this morning actually about the viewer lengths you know how long people durate on certain channels YouTube is going up massively with young people. And people think that's the opposite. People think that young people's attention is getting less and less. And yes, it is in certain places like shorts or in Instagram reels, but YouTube long form, they're watching so much more now. The average, you know, kid would only watch like 8 minutes of like a long form video like four years ago. Now they watch 20 minutes plus. and they're used to like two long hour episodes of Joe Rogan and things like this, you know, they're actually used to that now. So, I'm kind of encouraged for that. I've always thought that was I wouldn't say a myth, but I always I think they're missing a key word when people say, "Oh, people's attention span has

1:09:46 dropped." I think they're missing the word initially because if you've dropped my attention, people will binge watch. You know, movies I've watched in Netflix in the night or over the weekend. I've watched like the whole of Naros or whatever it is, you know. I think to get someone's attention initially might be difficult and that's why people go but once you've got their attention like you look at what you've just put together with the junkyard it's it's if you had let's say 20 episodes people will binge watch 20 episodes totally you know they'll just watch it in one session once they're in people said this attention span I always think they're missing the word initially because I actually longer now just because the way content is consumed. Yeah. And I also think that these social media platforms are purposely distorting their own figures,

1:10:36 you know, they're making things like like go shorter or be more hookie because they're trying to emulate Tik Tok truthfully, you know, because they saw the explosion of Tik Tok. But as we're seeing like it is kind of encouraging that more and more people are into longer form things and now me and me me and Paul quietly say this all the time. It feels like we're on a new horizon where the real talent's going to bubble up now you know like we we're in the like extra level of AI where if you can't keep up with the long form storytelling you'll just fall off you know you will be found out as being someone that's only a short form creator. Um but yeah it's interesting. Uh-huh. And and maybe to give hope to anyone who doesn't have like, you know, 200,000 followers on on each social media because I I mean I don't I have

Why are studios calling?

1:11:24 more than X, which doesn't mean much because the way the algorithm is built too, but um but like the last if I look at the last year and the last six months, I really get studios reaching out, streamers looking for content like the fact that you can build a social media following on short content. the people who are actually making those decisions are like higher level who are going to pay for that are not don't seem to be tricked by that like anyone can they know by now that anyone can do that now they're going to look into people who can actually make narrative content and and they reach out for that to say like oh we've seen this and whatever like even if you feel you're discreet if you build something which is worth watching which shows that you understand how a film is being put together even a short film um eventually I think there's a lot more chance that people will find you the ones that matter So, it is that

1:12:15 it's funny because all qualitative metrics are now completely fakeable. You know, you can buy 500,000 YouTube views for less than $1,000. It's unbelievable. You know, literally what you can do. You can buy followers. You can fake this. I've always done it. Yeah, I know. But that's why it is down to just quality at the end of the day. You see, it's just like it's going to be it's going to be an interesting time. And I think that the best will be the best. And I said, "The cream always rises to the top." Everyone was always worried, "Oh, there's millions of more people making AI content now." I'm like, "Yeah, but the cream always does rise to the top. It doesn't really matter, you know, like it's always the same." So, we're in a new era of that though, right? And [clears throat] I think you had Lauren Deina a few weeks, two months ago in here, and she's always saying the same.

1:13:04 She say, the the cream will rise to the top. That's something she keeps on saying and we need to have her on as a creator session. her. She was the one that did the Little Red Riding Hood one. Uh, yeah, I like that one. That was brilliant. So many British accents, bro. Everyone's doing British accents. Uncanny, everyone. It's so good. Oh, man. It's so It's so good to see you again, Henry. Honestly, it's like like, I said, I feel bad that Paul's in the back end here as producer because it's really Paul's catching up session with Henry. I did see you at Upscale. You're right. And uh yeah, oh my [clears throat] god, we got more questions from the audience. They've been coming in coming in. Danny is a very nice question here. So um chain of title, do you have thoughts on the human precision generative workflow documentation

Chain of title and clean assets

1:13:54 definitions drafted last week? No, he's right. He's right. I mean I've read it like a lot of people and and before that I was already a question as I'm actively having conversations with studios and and people who are more on the other side of you know of the of the of the legal legal questions so like procurement or whatever. I can afford right now to work this way without having necessarily like an entire system because I'm I'm on social media and you know I'm basically building around it. If I wanted to move towards like streaming or I wanted to move towards um theater whatever you you are expected today in the current you know in the current way things are done to have what they call a clean a clean sh of title. So what does it mean? It means that someone has to be able to prove at the very beginning that you or an individual created the asset you're using.

1:14:49 So if we take um an animation film so for in I so I'm working on a feature film right now and I was a script and I'm trying to see how to uh to produce. Is that breaking news? Have you announced that anywhere? I did I think I announced that I was working on it. It's just that it's not Oh amazing. It's not I mean it's it's not moving forward as I mean it's going forward because I do development on my own but it's not efficient until I really know that I've secured the budget. I've secured the distribution whatever like I don't want to you know but the point is every every studio I discussed with around this are think the same that like we need an artist who's going to make the illustration even if it's copying what's been done there which is stupid somehow but like so we can get them to sign a paper saying that they release the work and then you can trace it back to a person physically who made that drawing which has become the concept which is now the foundation or whatever.

1:15:40 Wow. It's it's a kind of a weird thing to get legally clean, but that's what's expected if you work professionally today. So, you go AI generated character, you go illustrator to actually make an illustration of that character. They sign that illustration and that's a copyrightable thing because it's you have to, but I think so because I think there's a human behind be behind. I think technically they expect you to start from scratch and then only if you go to AI you have that person but I think legally I'm not don't take this for legal advice I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is that if someone copies something done but like you trace it back to a human who can sign a waiver saying I hereby give the rights to that work then you're fine um but to be to be to be confirmed the one thing which is sure is that people will expect to have clean asset that's why I'm looking to this future as a hybrid project I want to have a studio not in terms of control because like working is still

1:16:33 it's fast but it's still kind of a pain somehow if you want to recont control some stuff um but also because you you you can tap into even visual artists who are going to make that part of the work as well totally so I think it's important yeah that's super cool and again we're breaking new grounds here when Albert was telling us about his copyright thing you're telling us about extra things it's really like people listening you don't understand like you know everybody's going through these same things you know and uh it's so awesome to hear about processes like this and how we can get copyright for our things. You know, I I also heard early days that that edit that you just showed us that crazy premier timeline. I mean there is so much human work that's provable there with the editing and everything else like this like individually

1:17:20 like characters and scenes may be not copyrightable let's say but the overall workflow and the storytelling and the provability of all of that editing and the sound design and everything else like that's another thing and um I think what I'm starting to realize is here we just need to keep a huge log of every project we do every single bit you know because that's evidence basically and it's all going towards a giant file that can be given to a court to say, I want to copyright this. Here's all of my assets, all my details, all of the things that they're going to need to do that. But yeah, we're still early days with all of this, right? So, so the fact that you're using AI doesn't mean that you discard it for any kind of copyrightiting like because some people are interpreting the law like where we where it is today by saying if

What does the law actually say about AI and copyright?

1:18:06 you nothing can be copyright copyrighted you say could be yeah copyrighted. Um that's not true. What what the the current legislation says is if they can prove this authorship, which means that you can use AI as long as you can prove that there was enough of a manipulation and understanding of what you're doing to actually show that you decided where they were trying in this case was created because someone was trying to get copyright over a fully ML generated body of work where they didn't touch it. The machine just did everything from A to Z and basically the judge said like I cannot copyright this because the machine did the entire work. But if you generate and then you edit and then you know where you're going any script and whatever you have a much better case of just showing like that's mine even though I generated behind but it's a case by case thing so far and as Aaron says another legend in the house here it also depends where in the world you are because everybody's going to have their own little like proability

1:18:59 some form of universal universal I think you're right because if for example I can't get away with copyright in England but I can in America then I can just fly to America, do it there, come back and then say, "Right, I own the copyright." Now, I know that people were selling companies in Singapore to be able to be on the same on the same legal side as a CE. That's something happens right now. Yeah. Wow. Really? But then they just made a deal obviously with the Americans as well, didn't they, to copyright infringing and stuff. So I think what happened is there's now going to be a catch-up Andrew because this model was not allowable in most companies because obviously you know there just was just remember when it started doing Tom Cruz out of the gate and Brad fighting

1:19:45 like straight away and so straight away all of the majors would have gone no no no no every single AI in the world that was fantastic I know spoke about it that's the problem about it it's like it's like shock marketing and it's not it but professional We need it for professional use. That's the most frustrating thing about these things. So, I'm just hoping now that they've turned a corner, you know, hopefully they're now on the right side of things and we can start getting clients green light the use of Zance and stuff like that within client projects and we I don't know it but it feels like things are legitimizing. You know, I saw the other day as well, Sunno is valued at like $6 billion.

1:20:32 Can't believe that. You know, like these companies are just they're no longer can play this game of like, you know, oh, we're the small fry, the small fish. It's like, no, no, no. I with I I I'm struggling to see that one. And the reason why is because I think the record labels, if they don't already, they'll have they'll have to own a piece of it. And also, when you play around with some of the other there's Happy Shrimp. But don't you seen that one that came out the other day? That's really good as well. And I just don't I think with music it's a lot harder than it is. It's a lot easier to recreate the music platforms than it is to do a sea dance because if se dance is this good others would have come up with something like the next week and I but I think with music it's a lot easier. So that's why when it comes to the value of the music

1:21:19 I'm not sure if it's what six billion is a lot. I don't know about that. Yeah. I know, but they already signed a deal with Warner as uh John's telling us. They actually like it must be to do with the m the music industry is still pissed off because of the money they lost from iTunes and Apple. They're still like because of what happened with digital. So, you never know. They might be pushing up the value of it just because it pushes up their value on the stock market. So, there's always going to be those type of games that they're going to inflate the inflate the numbers. I'm you know, I love it, Aaron. He's gonna laugh when I say this, but it always comes back to music. And you said to us, Henry, you had so much fun making the music for this as well in Sunno. And isn't it crazy that you can you Exactly. It was a brilliant soundtrack.

Writing the soundtrack in Suno

1:22:04 It really worked with the rhythm and the pacing. And did you use timestamps like you would in your video generations for your music as well? I should. I think I did generate like based on the length I wanted to have. So, I did attempt everything and I got variations like getting the same theme but getting different instruments so I can like place them in different moments and then just edit them the way I wanted to progress in the song. Well, here's our pro tip for you because um I learned this um through Issa. Shout out to Issa. He straight up gives Suno what's happening in his video generations. He's like, "I need the trumpets to get louder here because there's going to be an action sequence inside my video." And this is literally something you can do in Sunno with timestamps. So you can say, yeah, in in Sunno when you're um when you're, you know, putting in your prompt essentially, if you add timestamps

1:22:54 if you already know what's happening visually, you can describe to the model exactly what's happening. And so forget it just being a music prompt. Literally tell it the video scene. You know, have in your prompt, here's what's happening in the video scene. Yeah. So mixing and matching these different things, that's such a creative way to use a music LLM, right? Is to give it video model like prompts and stuff. And I was like, bro, I just know people are using their voice for that. They're just basically as they're watching the video, they're like doing the voice on on where the song should go and everything. And I think everything too. That's another way to do it as well. Um, yeah, it's it's really really smart. The one thing that we need now is to get music out of sea dance because it's really hard to stop it in the new sea dance

The Seedance 2.5 music problem

1:23:41 2.5. I've been trying all of the various ways. But if you're doing anything cinematic, it seems it just wants to add music no matter how much you tell it to stop adding music. So then people are like having to clean this up and remove the music but keep the sound effects and the dialogue and it's becoming a bit of a nightmare. Have you found any techniques for doing this or anything to or is yours? Yes, not exactly. as as I used to. I was happy to see that. I mean, I know some people have put in in some of the WhatsApp groups that they had a way to mitigate that. But I tried them all. I tried them all and it seems like it depends what you're trying to generate. Essentially, if it's a cinematic scene, it's always adding it. If it's something animation or a bit different, it won't. It just won't, you know, and so it's pulling from its training data and just forcing it in regardless of you trying to stop it.

1:24:29 But yeah, we need some negative keywords or some like do not include this and it be very strict, you know. Oh, I can see you're sharing your screen. Yeah, I've been using this actually like usually. Oh, cool. By the way, I'm using Adobe podcast for that. It's not perfect because it's basically just creating stem out of one single stream, but it can help. If a little music in the back, you can just remove it basically hands and push the rest. So, it's not another great perfect, but it can it can help. Really great. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man, you've got so many tools on Jel Henry. I love it, mate. It's unbelievable how many How many would you say you use on on this project? Is it like 20 30? Uh let me count. Wait. One, two, three, four, five, 6, 7, uh, 8,

1:25:20 9, 10, 10, 10, 11, 12, 13. Wow. 14ish, I would say. Wow. And next question is, uh, when's episode three? Are we is it in the pipeline? Have you already started it or are you waiting? wrap it today. So I'm going to enjoy a couple of days to just like breathe. But then I would say four to six weeks again I have to rethink. So maybe for the people who are watching but what's what's cool is that in video was uh cool enough to partner like officially on this on the season with me. So it's not just one episode but like the entire season is going to happen thanks to them. Oh that's amazing. Meaning that I I know that there's now a bandwidth to make it happen.

When does the next episode land?

1:26:08 But that's brilliant. Animation is always kind of a I think I would have gone faster if I had done anything realistic. I think animation is always kind of a tricky one. Um so I know that those 15 minutes and six weeks were like a kind of a rush. So I have to see I'm writing next script right now like how to pace this to have the run time slightly lower so I can keep the pace. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Oh, congrats. You really deserve this to be picked up by Invido. And again, thanks to Nvidia for sponsoring this episode and having a global premiere. It's like such a so many awesome things all at once to hear that you secured it. Is it um a certain amount of episodes long this series? Have you got plans like it for it to be a number or or you just going to keep going and sort of see how you go? So currently it's planned to So if you count episode zero, it would be a total of uh

1:27:00 nine episodes. Right. Actually zero. So from one No, nine. I'm I'm right. So, nine episodes. Um, and then I have an outline for three seasons if it happens, but it's an outline. I just roughly know where the story line should go and what it should be, but we'll see once we get there. Again, thinking ahead in the world and how it will expand. That's so awesome to hear. And we've had no technical issues with you. You're the first guest where you've had a perfect stream. We heard you perfectly the entire time. I can't believe it, Paul. This is like a first for our sessions, I reckon. Brilliant. I think Harry had to dip out to get a towel. You remember that one? That was hilarious. Oh, so good to see you again, Henry.

1:27:46 Thank you. Thank you guys for having me. That was good. Thank you. Where can we where can we stay up to date with everything going on in the world of Henry Henry? Yeah. So [laughter] platforms or just X or X Instagram and LinkedIn? Really LinkedIn has been really great to me. But so LinkedIn 100% uh Instagram I'm trying to build up. YouTube would be great because that's that's what matters these days. Um but it's always my first name, my last name somehow with uh some just Instagram thing is there's a dot between my first name and last name but the rest is like my just my handle. So yep. Awesome. And uh thank you so much for pushing this live now so that we could give you a link to actually go and watch it again. The link is now on the screen to go and watch that. And um if you're watching this on LinkedIn, look out for clips of this show to be distributed through our LinkedIn channels

1:28:38 because there were so many great tips that you dropped throughout this. We'll have little, you know, short form clips and so many more people see this than the regular live show. So we will push all of them all towards uh your YouTube channel as well. And thank you so much again for joining us, man. Really, really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. And getting all the love coming in here. Oh, what's the backstory to the mannequin? Says Alex. I just saw that question coming in. I can show you actually. My wife is an artist. Oh, that's awesome. Thank you, Alex, for the last second question. Look at that. That's embroidery. Wow. Oh, nice. That is the way we needed to close out this show. That is beautiful. So, that's my wife's work. Ah, she's looking right now.

One last thing: the embroidery

1:29:25 Very talented. Wow. Yeah. She hand embroiders all of that. Yes. Wow. So I see the Kitsuni fox right there. You know, I see all the inspiration for your work now. I see it. Aaron does as well. Oh man, that was such a great closing uh little thing there. Thank you so much for that. Everyone's a fan of your wife. Wow. Wow. Maybe we might need to have your wife on the next session as well for the creative session. Brilliant. Well, thank you very much, Henry. Thank you everyone in the chat. If you're watching on YouTube, please give this give this video a like. Helps us in the algorithm. Subscribe to the channel. Click the notification bell. All the do your YouTube thing.

1:30:15 I've heard one the hype button. I don't even know where that is. Click the hype button or [laughter] something. So, that's the other thing that they're saying nowadays. So, please do that wherever that is. And also don't forget to follow us. Go to our website. Um we'll be back next week Tuesday. If you have any videos that you want us to showcase, the website um if we put the website on the screen is the AI live show and.com. So that is if you want to if you've got any videos yourself that you want to showcase, let us know. We'll we'll take a look and would love to showcase as many videos as possible. Yes, there's the website and there is Henry's own YouTube channel. Um, Henry Dubra. I always pronounce that wrong. I I'm always nervous. Yeah, I'm always nervous to pronounce it.

1:31:06 I'm so bad with with names. Oh, man. Well, what an episode, guys. Um, I've got a hard stop today and I think Andrew has as well. We're going to get going. If you've got follow-up questions, let us know. We're always got an open inbox on LinkedIn so that you can shoot and I'll shoot them forward to Henry as well. Obviously, go connect with Henry and follow with Henry and ask them to him directly, but he's going to be very busy as we as we just heard. So, yes, LinkedIn handle, look for Henry's name. Yeah, I can put it actually. Uh, let me just a second. There you go. And we had a few more LinkedIn people coming in this week, which is very nice. Nice to see you, Nadia. I know why. Anyway, my handle is this.

1:31:57 There we go. Cool. All right, guys. Oh, people. Someone just said hello [laughter] as we're closing out this show. Now, what's going to happen? Yeah. So, someone said, "Please do a live teaching how to make money using AI." There's loads of videos out there on YouTube, YouTube, stuff like that, Zachary. So, [snorts] yeah, definitely check those out. And for Sheldendrick, um, what's going to happen for you is that we're going to end the stream right now and then it will cut to the very beginning of this episode and you can go and rewatch it because basically we've been live for the last half hour and a half. Um, we're just about to finish the stream, but yeah, don't worry that you came too late. You can always watch us on repeat. We caught you at the end there. And uh yes, you've you've got it.

1:32:46 You've got it. Big love. All right, guys. We'll see you all next week.