Transcript: BLVCKL!GHT: 30 Shows, 100 Characters, One World, and How Route 47 Gets Distributed

No Paul, a busy August, and no intro music

0:04 [music] We are back and there's no Paul in the building so I forgot to play the music. Um, that's straight away. Here we go. Background music coming in. Coming in. Let me turn that down. So, I'm moderating and hosting this week. Um Paul is too busy to join us unfortunately. We thought we were going to have uh a quieter August just to start off this session because we thought last year it was kind of you know a little bit down. There wasn't much going on and then this August the exact opposite happened. Seance 2.5 dropped. All clients went crazy giving us briefs and it's just been so intense.

0:53 Let us know in the comments if you're feeling the same. If you anticipated that August would be a bit of a calmer month, you know, some holidays type stuff, it was certainly not that for us. And we got Lara straight in the building. Hey, hey, that means we're live. That's good to see. Let us know where in the world you're tuning in from. Super excited to have our creative session here with Blacklight, who uh I actually met um in person recently, which was so nice, honestly. Um and upscale was a hell of a thing, wasn't it? Like it was one hell of an event and uh that was in San Fran. Andrew, you missed out on that one, mate. We really should have got you to that one. It was probably my favorite to date, honestly. Like, yeah, it was the Cuz at Google IO, I was very thankful for that um invite, but it was just too many people.

Meeting at Upscale, and getting swarmed

1:43 It was Glastonbury size, you know? It was like thousands and thousands and thousands of people and like so many different places to go. And the magnific one was basically exactly the right size, like 900ish people, and they were all really, really good, interesting people to talk to and meet and stuff. He got a funny funny side story. We were going out for a cigarette and he just got swamped by cameras because he hasn't shown up to many events yet. So, literally like there were like six different people trying to interview him, saying, "We'll just be quick. We'll just be quick." And I like came back 30 minutes later and he was still being grilled around everything. It was it was hilarious to see that. I love when people do that. It's like for you to come to an event, it's got to be special. I like when they they do that.

2:29 Exactly. I love that. yourself outside of yourself either. So you don't know how people perceive you like Yeah. And so when you see all these people that are like really excited to meet you was new for me. I was like, "Oh, after being in my own world for so [laughter] long." Especially because the way it started was like, "Are you Blacklight?" And as soon as you confirmed, everyone was like, "Oh, right." You know, I was like, "Oh, there he is." Yeah. [laughter] It's really funny to see that. Oh, I I said, "Andrew, the next thing we got to do, get him a passport so that he can get over to Europe so that we can bloody get him at the European events, you know, cuz got to export some of this energy and culture." Hey, we got Berlin in the house. Sacramento tuning in. Oh. Oh, saying that your audio is a bit low. Is there any uh way to shoot up the mic?

3:19 Yeah, let me see. I can also move it closer to my mouth. It may be also because I'm playing the background music. Let me turn the background music down a bit. There we go. But now we know we're live going around the world. We've got several people tuning in. I can properly start getting into the intro. So super excited for the session. As I said, um with sessions like this, not unlike our usual show, there's no polling, there's no voting. Obviously, we've picked Blacklight as a special guest and so we're not going to be judging any of the stuff. Plus, it's hilarious. It's crazy. It's all over the place. You know, it's about universe building this episode. We really want to get into world building, universe building because that's what's coming at the end of the year. Um, and I said in the green room, I just wanted to say a bit of a mutual respect to Dolly Parton, who I believe we all really, really

4:11 as musicians, as radio, you know, Andrew, MySpace, all of this. Like, I think everybody was sort of shocked by uh Dolly Parton's passing. Not that, you know, it wasn't because of her age or anything, but just because of how much influence and it even aligned people on the left and the right I noticed politically, which was very rare to see this, you know, like this mutual outpour of love for this person. And my favorite story was about this guy that um receives books for his children on the Dolly Parton Foundation. And the reason that she started all of this was because her dad was illiterate essentially and she never wanted anyone to not be able to read. And so she started a foundation to send books and just what a special person, you know, like not many rich famous people like that do such nice things to

5:00 other people like that. So yeah, just mutual respect. It was like a doubleand Oh god, we're losing too many greats lately, aren't we? It's um I think of a story from Rocky Horror when he's at the very end, don't dream it, be it. And when I read that, like I remember watching that as a teenager going one of the the midnight shows and uh that always stuck with me. Like don't dream it, be it. Be it. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Mary tuning in, our best commenter of the whole show. Oh, the the the views are really coming up today. People are back. Are people back? Are we back from summer holidays, guys? Are we are finally back at work? Is our parents now, you know, back?

5:48 Let us know in the comments if you've dropped off your kids today at school and and you're back. I Mine Mine's going back next week, Wednesday. So, I've got another week. Another week. It's been a long summer, but a fun one. After a bit, it has been a crazy summer in the UK. I was not prepared for it. Seven heat waves and I keep saying to people, is this now what we just have to deal with? Is, you know, are we now Europe now? I don't know. Should I buy air conditioning like out the wazoo this air conditioning? I'm telling you. I'm think I'm thinking so. For real. For real. Summer for the rest of your life. That's right. Well, I keep taking a leaf out of all my American friends books because they're like, "You don't have air conditioning?" I'm like, "No, like 5% of houses in the UK have air conditioning." Like less than that maybe.

6:39 Uh it's so shocking to most people. And I'm like, "No, no, that's how it is." You know, we're not used to this at all. But I wanted to open up this thing and say um how proud of you I am as we've been talking a lot, right? The fact that you've bootstrapped your studio, the fact that you've done all of this without other people's money and you've been very transparent about all of that and how it's been going down. Let us know where you are right now. You just signed a new lease, right, in the studio you're sitting in and everything like that. Let us know how did that happen, when did it happen, how long's the commit, all of that. Yeah, we um we uh had a friend of ours through Sway uh Molina Johnny Ashcrooft who does a lot of branding and stuff and he had a he has a studio in this building and so we started doing like weekly hangouts

Bootstrapping the studio and signing the lease

7:29 and we I realized there was like a lot of creators like in this area and I was like why don't we all just [clears throat] like hang out and do like a Meatly hangout and so it was like PJ Ace and Tupacabra and Vnderworld and me and um a few others and we just started hanging out. And then uh one day a few months ago, Johnny's like, "Hey, there's a studio that's opening up on the top floor. You guys should go check it out." And that was like on a Thursday. And by that Monday, the next Monday, we had signed the lease. The three of us were like, "Hey, let's do it." And uh just moved in. We're in a little rough part of town, but I think that's where a lot of culture comes from. Morning. I was like having a cigarette. It's like 7:30 in the morning and I hear this just like house music just bumping.

8:17 [laughter] Let's go. It's like this 70year-old with a top hat in a wheelchair [laughter] and he's just going down the middle of the street and I was like endless inspiration. [laughter] That's awesome. Love it. Just self-funded and trying to just bootstrap it ourselves. I think that's, you know, trying to own your own stuff and maintain that for as long as possible is has been like important to me and that's everything from content to the words that come out of my mouth. So nice tried to keep it absolutely and I love the fact that you're like Yeah, exactly. And you're getting local people together and you're starting a stream and stuff, you know, similar to us. That's why we talked and I was like, do it, you know, let's do some collabs on that in the future. Unite two little, you know, spaces in in the AI space is so good.

9:05 I did that recently with Lisbon and London. I was like trying to get these two communities together because they're two of the coolest I hang out with. I'm like, we've got to do cross events. We got to do cross live streams and we had Lisbon come over to London, take over with FIPA and it was awesome. Honestly, I was like, this is two great cultures colliding here and making cool stuff, you know. So, I'm so glad I opened up with that question because yeah, not many people we know, Andrew, truthfully, have done it bootstrapped, you know, they've all got a lot of like investment and VC money and it's a lot different, you know, to doing stuff bootstrapped and earning every dollar and doing all of that, you know, and the hustle behind all of that. It's that independent grind. It's one thing I know about whenever I've gone to the West Coast, especially that independent grind is I've noticed is everywhere. I remember going to San Francisco

9:54 and they were everyone was talking about I was working in music at the time. Everyone was talking about the independent like hustle and it was down the whole of the west coast from as Dr. Dre said Diego to the bay but also even like from Seattle all the way down. So it's that I really love it and the fact that what you're doing there is is kind of like that spirit of the West Coast like the independent hustle really. And well, what a name then to be called West Coast AI Labs and then be the spirit of the West Coast. That's brilliant. Yeah, exactly. It's that hustle. But what I want to find out um really though, you obviously you've got the studio, but you're almost looking at AI at that next level when it comes to videos. And we mentioned this yesterday, so pretty much everyone in the chat was here yesterday and we talked about

What does world building actually mean?

10:41 world building. It would be great to kind of find out from the most layman terms what exactly is that in this world that we're about to enter. Not necessarily world building, but this AI video world. Yeah. I mean, I think the easiest way to explain it is like think about a video game and when they're building a video game, there was a a a game like a program that came out a couple years ago on PlayStation called Dreams. I don't know if you remember this, but you'd have like the two little controllers and you could essentially create your own world. You would you would start with just a uh a plane of existence, if you want to call it that, just a you know, rectangle block and then everything is built on top of that. So there's like rules of the world where for me like everyone has this weird, you know, body

11:31 horror sort of element to it, but nobody addresses it. It's just one of the rules of this world which is different than like our reality, right? So that's one aspect of it. And then it's the locations, the people, the objects, the food, all of those different components can all be changed. And in your world, it there are world rules that are that are that it goes by. It looks a certain way. It acts a certain way. The people are a certain way. Uh the food's a certain way. And it kind of just bleeds into everything. And so when you're doing world building, especially with video, you're creating characters that exist in this world and they may have a singular purpose, but if you were to take a 10,000 foot view out, they're a complex character. They have other things that they do besides like the show.

Characters with lives outside their own show

12:20 So like for me, I started with characters that would be a crypted dating game is a good example. So it's a dating game show and they're trying to match with different crypteds. The host is very weird and crypted looking himself and he's the host of that show, but he leaves the at the studio at the end of the day. So like what's the rest of his life like? Does he have a girlfriend? Does he have a romantic interest? What does he do in in the off time? And so it's like building up these different shows in that world and then kind of breaking them out of the mold of the show that they live in and kind of showing the cross-pollination of like these characters and the stories that their real lives have that may be different than the the jobs that they may have. Love that. Love that. I love that too. Yeah. It's just I think that if you look at for example Marvel and the cinematic universe there,

13:09 Quinton Tarantino does it great like when they kind of that that world where it's like this is happening in the same world and video games as well. It's always I've always since I was young I was like I wonder what would happen next or I wonder what happened when they've done this and essentially what you're saying is now it's possible now it's possible we we and that's the way to think mate that's the difference here by the way if you can turn up your mic anymore I think there's someone saying that it's still funny a little bit hard to hear but I hear you okay through the headphones but yeah just for the audience members sure um but yeah I I think just I think the best thing you said there that really gets me thinking is thinking the 10,000 ft above thing, you know, instead of like episode by episode. It's character traits, you know, it's things that are overall

13:55 going to be influential. Like for example, like one of the rules for one of your characters, Andrew, could be this guy is never happy, you know? So, whatever the situation he encounters, he has a negative like effect to it. And that's like a rule of your world whereby a character engages with a plotline and it has a twist that's coming that you can predict, you know, but like that's the sort of higher holistic thinking than just here's exactly what happens in this episode is here's how a character would act in this world, which is yeah, it's just a different level of thinking altogether. And I think some people are like ready for that and I think a lot of people are not ready for that. And uniquely, Black Lights had the insight to know about this and has been building so many worlds.

14:45 And Route 47 is like how big now? Like it's crazy how big it is. Like 29 or 30 different shows and I would say at least close to 100 characters. Wow. You see that? That's like we very like Springfield. Exactly. Yeah, we very rarely encountered someone that's in got this level of characters, this level of worlds, and this is just something that's so transferable to the next level of what's going to come. You know, that's what's so interesting about it to me. But yeah, going through to my show notes as well, I just wanted to mention that you have been um asked to be a judge recently. Um, and I'm gonna butcher the name of this, Lumara.

Route 47: 30 shows, 100 characters

15:33 Lumra. Yeah. Um, [laughter] but a few of the previous guests of the show, Gossip Goblin I saw as a judge, JBoo, who's going to be on uh Sunderman who I've collabed with. Um, what is that exactly? Is that like um another big film competition like we've been seeing or what is it? Yeah, it's more of like a film festival. I mean, there are cash prizes for it and everything. It's being put on by uh Venice, which is ask Venice uh online. They have unrestricted um model access. So when you're running Sea Dance and you may have a platform that's restricting you for whatever reason, maybe it's too gory or too visceral, um you can push through it on Ask Venice and the restrictions are a lot lower there. So as a creative who does PG-13 mature rated content, you need something that's a little bit like stronger

16:24 and uh that's that's what we're using for it. So, well, I'm going to make a nice little segue with what you said there because um my next note in terms of me wanting to personally thank you uh is for the the [ __ ] that we see, you know, like the fact that, you know, you're willing to like write very very well-written articles. I I I get I told you about that early. I was like, you know, I used to write for Sneaker Freaker and I can tell you were a writer or a journalist or something at some point because of how well written your articles are. And you called out, I'm not going to name them, you know. I'm not going to drop the names of the companies or the competitions that you called out, but always rightfully so, I would argue, you know, and that's why I was so attracted to the writing is like, oh, this guy really wants better for the industry.

17:13 He's not just trying to [ __ ] on people or do anything like that. So, um, yeah, if you know about that, then, uh, that's a whole another side of you. You know, you're so well written, articulate online, and very good at us Europeans need to take a big leaf out of this book because we're so passive. This is why I'm literally calling it out, you know. Um, where can people read your stuff? A lot of articles on X. It's mainly X. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes on LinkedIn if I have like time to it's like it's so hard as a creator you have like so many platforms to share stuff to it's hard to like keep it all in in the same place. Well, you you're just setting me up for segways because my next question my next thing was about platforms, you know.

17:58 Um, now we also talk a lot about distribution and me and Andrew uniquely talk about distribution a lot because we know that there's a lot of creators right now that are doing awesome stuff, but no one quite knows where to distribute it. So, you got really early involved in Fairground and put me on to these guys. And Fairground, if you're unaware and watching, work with Roku, which is like a 24-hour TV streaming platform. They also work with Amazon now recently, Andrew. So, Amazon Prime's a new distributor that Roku can align to and stuff like this. Uh, sorry, Fairground can align to as well as Roku. So, how did that uh happen initially? You know, how were you one of the first to Fairground? How did you discover them? And, you know, what's your thoughts about distribution in general when it comes to that stuff?

Fairground, Roku and the distribution off-ramp

18:46 Yeah, I mean I have been interested in distribution from like the very get because the it's the off-ramp and replenishment stage for any creative. So like once you push a project out, if you're trying to monetize that project, you monetize it however you do. The funds you make from that funds your next project. Being someone who's a self-starter, that is a very important piece because I don't have people funding me. So I have to fund everything myself. Like even with all the creative partnerships that I have, my AI expense at the end of last year was five figures and the year before it was five figures. And so being in it, you know, my first year, I think it was like getting up there, but there were less companies out there. Yeah, but yeah, I mean when you're funding it yourself, you care about the cost and you figure out very quickly like I have to

19:35 distribute this and how do I do that and what are the avenues that I can can monetize this so that I can keep making the stuff that I want to make. Um, yeah, excuse me. So, yeah, they reached out to me a couple years ago and it was uh Oh, they reached out to you. That's cool. Just cuz you were an OG in the space basically and they saw your stuff. Oh, that's cool. And they're like, you may think we're crazy. uh we don't have anything yet. Here's what the vision is. Here's our team. Here's the history we have. Um Colin, who's their CEO, uh was the CEO of Zumo, which is uh essentially like the godfather of fast TV or ad supported television. So if you have internet, but you don't have cable, um you can just watch these fast TV channels. It's all ad supported.

20:21 So I knew he knew the right connections to kind of build this. At that point I was already on Escape which was another distribution platform, John Gada's platform. So um but I that was more geared towards film and I didn't see a revenue model early on beyond just the exposure which is you know great for an emerging field but we've been essentially all like paving this path together over the past you know 22 months of uh different companies and different people kind of all rowing in the same direction to kind of get distribution opened up for for everybody and uh yeah beyond Roku and and um Amazon. I think they're up to like five different streaming platforms right now. And so if you were to think about like an old distribution model of like uh traditional

21:10 like this is a new era because I can give fairground content. They can distribute that content to five different streaming platforms, five different ad supported platforms. Those are five revenue streams potentially, right? Um which is a huge opportunity. The problem is is it's a little bit of a leap of faith. So you're kind of, you know, like having to put content out. You're not totally getting the ad revenue or the numbers yet because again, we're like the first wave of this. And so there is a little bit of like I scratch your back, you scratch mine. Trust me and I trust you and you build together. And [clears throat] it's not for everybody. You know what I mean? Some people need that money right away. And uh it's maybe not, you know, a time for an investment for them.

21:55 For me, I put out so much content that I had no problem kind of like doing the investment on it. And it honestly makes so much sense as like a medium to long-term play as you say, like you don't know the ad revenue splits yet. We don't know all of that, but it could be a great medium to long-term play. And me and Andrew, we were talking about the fact that not many people are thinking about TV and stuff. Another little fun story that you just reminded me of in the Escape AI part. Another time we met Andrew is when I was attending Escape AI's um awards ceremony. I saw him in the like uh the open it's like an open world cinema bar thing and you go sit in a cinema studio and his was the first award and he won the award but he fell asleep. [laughter] So I told him he won the award in WhatsApp afterwards.

22:45 I was like I just watched Blacklight win the first awards. Congrats. He's like oh I had to go do something and fell asleep. It was he I was there to support him at the awards, he was there, too. But then half an hour later when the award was being announced, I love it. It [laughter] was I was on a project around that time and I was up until I think like 4:00 or 5 in the morning and I anyone who knows me, I'm I'm up first thing in the morning. I work really long. I work full-time on top of doing AI. So I'm usually doing like a minimum of 12 hour days every day. Weekends I'm it's there. It's non-stop. Like I we talked previously about this like it's hard to get the machine going but then once the machine's going it's really hard to just hang on and keep up with it because totally it just snowballs. What's your 9 to5? What's your job? Um I'm vice president of operations for a national marketing company.

The 12-hour days and the full-time job

23:36 So I developed this company 10 years ago with the owners out of the garage. I do workflow optimization and I've been in digital marketing for 15 years. Nice. So it's, you know, AI was this something else I could hop into and, you know, share some of my creativity. I work in a highly regulated industry, too. Yeah. I do like insurance and home services. And so there's a there's a level of like ethics standards that I have to abide by in advertising and marketing that I naturally carry over into AI. And AI doesn't have those same, you know, regulatory standards. And some people don't have the same ethics that I have. And so there's a little bit of a clash sometimes where it's like, "No, you can be able to you can do whatever you want." And I'm like, "Not quite. I don't think you fully understand the larger picture." But okay,

24:22 I love those two sides of your life. By the way, you know, the fact that you're doing this very highly regulated thing and then as Mary points out, you know, you do have this like aesthetic style that's very unique and very different. And you know, I love this question by the way. Um, it it comes down to custom models versus base model tuning, you know, how do you keep your aesthetic? Do you have a Laura system or anything like that that you Yeah, I bet I have at least, you know, 20 different Laura custom train models, everything from Flux one to Korea 2 to soon, you know, Korea's upcoming model. Anywhere that I can train uh to customize it makes it easier long term.

Twenty custom LoRAs, and leaving Midjourney behind

25:08 I I kind of broke away from MidJourney uh uh probably two years ago now because I found it to be it's a really great exploration tool and a good gateway into getting into AI. But if you want to genuinely be original, you have to it starts at the beginning, right? You got to make your own look and your own feel and your own kind of uh your own janessiqua as it is. Totally. So, hey, we got Afro in the house. Let's go. Love to see her. Um, another creative session that we're really excited to see already. Will, are you hiring in Canada? Mary says, I think, um, things are going to start happening. You're going to get some interest in coming in working in your studio now that people know, you know, that you're doing

25:59 this. And yeah, I think what we need to do though for people I've just realized this, you know, that are completely unaware of your content like um let's watch your video, right? Like we're going to create a session. Um this one uh do you want to give any explanation as to it otherwise it's just called Stew Needs Money and I'm going to leave it there. Like I can give a little I can tee it up. So yeah, go on then. We've been um so a distinction like with us here is we're not a traditional studio model. We're all independent creators and so it's very much a uh lateral organization where there's no boss, but if I want help on a project, I can I have this trusted network of creators that I go to that I will soundboard with. And we use the space as a creative space to bounce ideas off of.

Setting up Stu Needs A Dollar

26:48 And so we started all making like Portland content since we're all in Portland. Um and we were talking one day, my buddy Tupacabra came up with this. He's like, "We should do like a stunt man character who just like gets completely, you know, [ __ ] up over and over." And I was like, "Oh my god, this is actually hilarious. I want to do this project." And uh so I started with a character model of Stu and in every episode something happens to Stu. And so the next episode has a new character model with the repercussions from the previous thing. So, I've gone through probably 10 or 11 character models for Stu and as he keeps having more experiences and keeps getting, you know, these horrible accidents, his body kind of is gets more and more affected. And so, this is one of the episodes.

27:37 I think the one that you have is Ste's coming out of the hospital and it's his next next part of the adventure. I love it. I'm so glad I asked. Well, with all that in mind, let's check it out. It's fine. It's fine. I am okay. Stu. Stew, YOU ANSWER ME RIGHT NOW. OKAY. OKAY. I have plan. Hey sugar, you want to dance? D. Yes, please.

STU NEEDS A DOLLAR

28:34 Yeah. That'll be $40, sugar. And we are watching this live over the extraordinary.

29:22 HE IS AIRBORNE. HE IS ACTUALLY AIRBORNE. And he is coming down fast. This is not going to end well. [screaming] Oh, he's hit something ON THE DECK. OH, THERE has been an explosion on the Portland Spirit. [screaming] HE IS FLYING. HE IS COMPLETELY airborne from the explosion. [laughter] That was Ste is the man. Let's go. Stew is in the house. Let's go. So funny. Mary goes, "I want all of this." [laughter] He's dead.

Real Portland locations, real photography

30:08 Not really. He's probably back. Yeah. In the next one. [clears throat] That was That was amaz There's so many things I want to say about this. This First off, the style was really, really good. It was I like it. Like I would watch if it was on TV. If I was just going through the channels and it was on TV, I wouldn't be thinking this is AI. I'll just be thinking this is just like a TV show. Obviously the characters are I probably think special effects. I wouldn't be thinking this is AI like the way you filmed it and you managed to combine real life world with the AI like look I just think it's been it's really really good. Did was this sea dance was sea dance and uh we walked around. So Mary's is actually a strip club here. It's like four blocks from our studio.

30:54 [laughter] And we were walking from lunch one day and I was like, wouldn't it be funny if Stu went to Mary's? And it's been around for 75 years. It's open every single day. You saw the times on there. I think it's like 11:00 a.m. until [laughter] it's always open essentially. It's always open. And so I just those those I took a bunch of pictures. So him walking in, that's literally what Mary's looks like. So we're I'm taking, you know, realworld photography. Um, there's another episode where he tight rope walks across a steel bridge. So, I'm taking like real photos and mixing them with my characters and and trying to tell stories with it. Yeah. Brilliant. Love it. So fun. I love this comment here. Hearing people like Blacklight Talk about a makes a clear line between the people with actual film experience and people doing, you know,

31:41 bro influencer novelty bandwagon stuff. You know, it's like I think that you're so right, Andrew, because let's put it this way, algorithms and social media can get you sort of impressions and attention, but actually something you'd want to watch on TV flicking over on a 24-hour streaming thing with ads supporting it. You've got to get like that instant like nostalgic feeling. Oh, I want to watch this, you know, otherwise you're just going to flick off straight away. That's the whole point of that sort of thing, isn't it? So, every sort of scene being real and fun and engaging. I love the phone in the bin from the start, you know, just [laughter] oh, it's just straight away you're like, "All right, okay, hilarious." You know, I'll keep watching this. If that was the thing that I turned on to when I was just checking over the channels, I'll be like, "I'll give this I'll give this more time." You know, and that's the whole idea,

32:33 I think, is like you're thinking ahead to the distribution platform and not for the social media algorithms and stuff. Well, and social media can be gamed, you know what I You see how many people have, you know, there's even right now my account on X is being botted and it's been an issue that I've had for a while where I have to delete these bots every single day and people can pay for engagement. We see people supported by agencies and they have their own networks that grow and then beyond that you don't even know where your audience is. So maybe like my largest audience is on Tik Tok and I do 16 by9 8 minute films like 8 minute stories on there and I get huge watch numbers counterintuitive to everything you think would be successful on social media but on Instagram where I don't have the feature to flip my phone and and view it in widescreen

Why can't social metrics be your guiding light?

33:21 my engagement is significantly lower and so depending on where audiences are they get a different experience. Um, and so you can't really like rely on those metrics as like your guiding light for success. You need to, you know, show it to people and see what how they feel about it. And um, Yep. And yeah, another thing we chatted about yesterday, Andrew, was um, remember I told you I was reading a really fascinating article about the ways that people in uh, interact with YouTube now and TV has overtaken desktop in terms of the way it's actually used now. So people are using YouTube on TV which again adds this layer of difference you know and a remote access and all of this and it's going to be fascinating isn't it to see how content evolves to match distribution basically and the way

Is content king a myth?

34:11 because what made me what made me realize from when cuz I I just let you know uh black light I worked at the BBC for many years and BBC you would create content you put it out there they had distributions they were powerful and when I left the BBC 200 06 I took a a leap of faith and decided to play Russian roulette with my career and join MySpace. But this was MySpace in when it was only available to students. So I was part of the team to launch it outside of America. And when I went there, even though MySpace, I was there for the sharp rise, quick rise, and it was like 20 times bigger than the BBC. We could take the same content from the BBC. So content doesn't change. Same content, put it on a MySpace profile and get zero views. And you're like, that's when I realized that when it comes to content in this new world that we're living in, it's not about who creates the best content.

35:02 Content is king is a myth. Content is king if people see it. We need to be thinking content then distribution and then conversion, i.e. how do I get people to watch it. Um, and it's like what you're saying is that you're you're thinking the way that I've been teaching people for years. It's not a case of just let me create some great content because everyone can create great content and I've met many talented broke singers, you know, thousands of them. And it's not that they content isn't good. It's distribution is what fails them. And I think that if you if we go into it thinking to ourselves, yes, content is really important, but assume everyone's got great content. How can my distribution match my content? And then how can my conversion getting people to watch it match that?

35:48 Because then content is key because people are watching it and then and I think that's really important to kind of understand. So it's it's refreshing to hear you be thinking about distribution as well. That's the distributor too, right? Like so on a TV audience for a 30 minute block, you're really making 22 minutes of content. In that you're also accounting for two to three ad breaks that are in there. Yeah. Yeah. So, people that are making content at 22 minutes at a time are a handful at best right now. I think I could pro I know most of them, you know, I mean, that have been in the AI space. But it is a commitment to storytelling and you have to [clears throat] like understand how to do pacing and how to stretch out a story into 22 minutes or if you're going for an hour story, making a full film, like [snorts] you have to be entertained the entire way through.

Why 30 minutes of TV is 22 minutes of content

36:35 And be entertaining to a viewer. And how do we also do that in a time where people are turning on their TV for background noise while they're sitting and scrolling on their phone? I'm guilty of that, you know, and so I think about like what stops me from scrolling and looking at the screen and what keeps me engaged looking at the screen. Like I've been to movies where I've fallen asleep in the first 30 minutes because there's not enough happening on the screen. Yeah. Um and it's not that I'm not interested in it. It's just I'm ADHD. My brain's melted from brain rot and partially my own fault because I'm making it too, right? But those are the things you have to think about as a creator is how do I break beyond just entertaining people on social media? And if distribution is your goal, you have to understand the formula of what it takes to get distributed and you have to meet those

37:27 standards. And if it is sometimes creating in a box, but if you want to to play that game, you got to get in the box. Yeah, it's 100% true. And if you don't even know the rules of the game, there's no point trying. That's the thing. And Afro, we'll talk about this in your episode as well because you're saying that, you know, that's why you're stuck distribution doesn't match your content. And I think, you know, don't feel bad. Like as I said, Blacklight got very early access to some of the early distribution models as well as the world models and other things. So, we're all still discovering this. You know, nobody's got the answer. Truthfully, going back to what you said about feature films, though, nothing after 45 minutes has kept my attention. So, I'm fascinated about the feature films that are supposed to drop at the end of this year and whether or not they can break that barrier

The 45-minute attention problem

38:13 because I don't have ADHD or anything like that, but I still can't watch 40 minutes plus of something and it could be continually as good and in AI pure anyway. You know, obviously with movies I can, but like what about you, Andrew? What's the longest piece we've watched where you've been able to like be engaged the entire way through? I find it very difficult. Very difficult. constantly. I could be watching something and I've got to go on my phone to play a game while watching it. Like I've almost trained myself. Um but I do that with football as well. I could be watching a football game and I'm just like doing that. So it's very difficult to get my attention unless I'm watching something in another language. So when I watch Netflix Yeah. I have to cuz I don't like watching it dubbed. So if I'm watching Squid Games, I have to listen to the like South Korean

39:00 language and then read. That's the only thing. or or money heist. I'm listening to the Spanish but reading. They're the only things that gets my attention. Otherwise, I can still enjoy stuff. Um or if I go to the cinema, that's the other thing as well. If I'm in the cinema, I can I can focus for a long time. But quickly going back to what Afro um um Afro If Future said about distribution, the rapper Cassidy said, "I've been dope forever. It's just now my promotion's better." So that's what I often say to people. You'll probably been great for a long time, but now you just got to pro get your promotion better. Well, it's also about packaging, too, right? Like you can package three shorts into a block as long as there's a through line.

Packaging shorts, and nonlinear storytelling

39:45 So, usually that's like a a narrator, Tales from the Crypt, you know, uh Twilight Zone, that sort of thing. Um and and you can kind of piece those string them together into a full block. That's just a different way to expand your storytelling. Yeah, one of the things I do is I'm really big on nonlinear storytelling. Um, one because that's the way that we recall memory is it's not linear. Um, I just did my fifth feature which is called Mr. Gurglesson's Midnight Hour and it's like my it's like an hour long. It's my fifth piece that's over an hour long. But this one is like others are like very out of order and disjointed and it's a way to have the person kind of pay attention to what's going on and then you you take the piece away with you after the hour and kind of let it marinate and you start to kind of understand the concepts in it.

40:35 Not a lot of creators do that. People think it's a shortcut with AI. I like telling stories that way where you're kind of drip feeding little morsels of information and have you come away with the piece with something to think about. Um kind of like the back room kind of sort of did this a little bit. It was a little bit more linear, but I love doing out of order storytelling. Um and the I knew this episode was going to be great because I forgot that we're all digital marketers bringing that to this, you know, cuz this is what that is, isn't it? you're saying like you're thinking about marketing and distribution in ways that we've been doing, you know, like Andrews as well has done many talks on digital marketing as well. And I think that's what us people bring to it that are separate to normal creators cuz they don't have a background in marketing or digital or

41:25 how to distribute or how any of this stuff works. You know, they really are like whenever I work with pure creators, they're always like, "So, how's this going out?" you know, they they just want to hand it off to someone and just not not worry about any of that. And actually, they hate it when distributors tell them it needs to be in this order, packaged in this way to, you know, meet these channels. They hate being told what to do and they just don't want to care about any of they don't care if anyone sees it. That's the problem with most creators is they just don't care if anyone sees it. They would rather just focus on the creativity and that's it. But the whole point of this is that it has to work in distribution, right? And most people when they come to me with a budget, Andrew, they're like, "Okay, so we've got 80 uh 80 grand, 100 grand to make this project work."

42:12 And I'm like, "Okay, how much of that have you left for distribution?" And they say, "None of it. It's all on creative." And I'm like, "So where's it going?" You know, like, "What's your plan once we've made it? You've spent every single dollar on making it with no idea of where it goes. It's truly crazy. It's I always think of these three words for any project and it's after I finish the project, it's always and then what? So now that you completed something and then what? Like you clip online and it's entertaining. Okay. And then what? You know, so what is the what is the next piece that of this puzzle that you're doing? I remember hearing someone said you have to ask it almost seven times and then what to get to like what you really really want.

43:00 Yeah. Seven layers. So, it's so it's so true. Um, going back to the to what we just watched that is that part of a bigger world or is that its own? It's just Yeah. Just the Portland kind of thing that we were doing as as a oneoff. Yeah. But you would you build like the world of Portland and add characters within that? Sure. Sure. Is that something that you potentially could would do or is that Yeah, I would do it if I you know I have so many different ideas that you know we you can make anything now. So it's hard to like put the blinders on and say okay today I'm going to do stew like over the weekend I started doing this new thing. I think we'll probably watch one of the things where it's uh Legends of the Void Spire and it's I'm just thinking about

What's next in the Route 47 world?

43:47 Saturday morning cartoon style content that I used to love as a kid. Bring that up to you know 2026. make it a little bit more realistic, a little bit darker humor, a little bit adult humor, and working up towards build, you know, filling in the lore right now and then working up to like a full-on episode. Um, and then I have the Route 47 stuff, which is like, you know, all these characters and stories that I can always dig into and it's it's fun. You know, you come in today and I can build something, but it's going into the same bucket like it all kind of melts together. [clears throat] And you are the king of segways because I was just about to say, should we watch Legend of the Void Sphere and you start talking about it. You could tell you're a streamer, by the way. [laughter] You know, you really

44:33 you even got this characterized in terms of where things should fit within the 90-minute episode. So, I really appreciate without Paul here as well is very, very helpful. If you are like as crazed about this piece as, "Hey, I just seen Lionus in the chat. I haven't seen you in a while, buddy. How's it going, mate? Good to see you. If you are um you're going to be blown away by this one, Andrew, it's seven and a bit minutes long, so strap in. Um it's going to be chaos, right? But get your questions ready at the end of this one about how it was made and all the characters and the world building and stuff. But let's check it out. Go on. Go on. Sorry. I was going to say, but before you play it, everyone in the chat as well, get your questions ready. Ask too many, many questions. get your questions ready as well.

45:22 Yes, exactly. Um at the end of the session, we'll get all of the questions started and then um get them all checking out. But let's check it. How do you ex is it void spear or sphere or I wasn't sure how to say void spire? Okay, so legend of the void spire. Let's check it out. [applause] What the [ __ ] Come quietly, sorceress. Hang on.

LEGEND OF THE VOID SPIRE

46:10 Bring her to the void spire. [music] Once your blood touches the orb, the rift [music] never closes. This whole realm bends to me. Magnus will stop you. Your hero is already dead. He just doesn't know it yet. My lord Magnus, he's breached the outer gate. He's coming for her. Then let him come. Seal the gates. The Warren's portal always leaves a scar.

47:02 Damn. Tell your [music] master the Outlander is coming. Then I'm not waiting for sunrise. Yeah.

47:57 Score, face me. [music] You're outmatched here, Outlander. [music] [screaming] Lost little warrior in [music] our bogue now. Keep your trinkets, warrior.

48:47 Marsh Bloom. She's not far now. Not today. [laughter] That trinket smells of old [music] magic. We'll be taking it.

49:35 Not the way I wanted this to go. [groaning] She came through here. [groaning] Hold on.

50:24 CORALUS RED DOUBLES HER EFFORT. YES. None shall pass. Move. Coralus. Magnus. It's a trap. He's been waiting.

51:17 [music] You found her faster than I expected. Bold for a creature who doesn't understand what he's walked into. I understand enough. Let her go. Then let's finish this [music] properly. [music] Is that all your kind has left?

52:06 This power belongs to no warlord. You dare interrupt me. [laughter] Use the chaos warrior. Magnus, the orb, it's failing.

53:00 This isn't over. [screaming] [crying] Told you I don't [music] wait for sunrise. I think this just about sums it up from Tim the legend joining in. 13-year-old me would love this as much today as today me loves this. So, uh, I think Linus said something very similar. Um, exactly. If you knew the 1990s, if you're old enough to have watched this stuff, you know, and you appreciate this style and aesthetic, the nostalgia

Why generate at 480p on purpose?

53:53 it brings and how different it looks from, you know, everyone trying to go for this photo realism and all this and you're just leaning heavily into the nostalgia and it's it's awesome. Well, it's also interesting, too, like everyone goes for very highfidelity, very crisp cinematic, attentiongrabbing stuff. All of these were generated in 480 on purpose. [clears throat] Yeah. Because it's supposed to be older footage, which isn't high fidelity. So, I ran everything at 480 and then just upscaled it to 1080 and left it. And that's it. It doesn't have to be 4K because it's matching that. And same with like the acting and the blocking. Like it's very reminiscent of those old shows where they were just made with cheap budgets.

54:40 And yeah, how do you portray a cheap budget, right? [laughter] No, that's a really really good point. Download literally creating 480 which saves you credits as well. Mhm. So yeah. Yeah. And then you can a lot cheaper, mate. I'm telling you how much cheaper it is is crazy. So that like workound is smart. I thought you put a particular style on the prompts, but yeah, downloading it in 480 is smart. So, I made a custom model for this series, which is uh like old '9s practical effect television shows, like specifically for Saturday morning like Yeah. Yeah. type shows. Yeah. Yeah. That's fascinating. Which was your favorite back then? I was a Power Rangers type of person. And what was your one though? What was your favorite?

Saturday morning cartoons, and Zoobilee Zoo

55:27 Oh man, I Power Rangers was a little bit I watched them on like weekday mornings, but I remember even older stuff than that. Like old romper room and Zubily Zoo. Zubily Zoo was probably my jam, but that is like that's I'm dating myself there. Not sure about that one. Was that Did that one make it to the UK? Yeah. Did that do was uh Ben Varin, who was like a famous uh dancer and actor and they essentially would dress up like these humanoid anamorphic characters and they would teach children about the arts. It was on like PBS or something. And so there was like a painter and a builder and a musician and uh yeah, it's it's I'm definitely dating myself with this one, [laughter] but uh go back and look up Zubly Zoo

56:16 and you'll both be horrified and entertaining. [laughter] Yeah, I don't think we had that one in the UK. People in the chat, what what cartoons on Saturday mornings did you watch? I used to watch He-Man and Thundercats. They were the two that I was really into. I love those two. Classics. Oh my god. Got a question here from Grandma Grace as well about um no you said you stopped using midjourney for the characters and stuff right so that was what exactly what was the image generated for that one do you remember uh those are custom models in uh Korea so under K2 large model I made a custom image model for those for both the location and character references that was another time I split into you because I was listening in the airport Andrew as I was coming home and blacklight was asking all the great questions to the Korea people

Three custom datasets in one look

57:04 about the new stuff and I was listening to their X spaces thing and you were talking about this weren't you about like foundational body uh model building on their stuff. It's great great questions. So this this one specifically is actually a uh it's its own mood board plus two style Lauras combined. So all in all there's three three custom data sets working together to create the imagery for this. Similar to what Albert said, a Andrew, it's about reinforcement, you know, just every time reinforcing the style and having as many layers to reinforce that as you can. And then obviously in his case, he's trying to obviously um extract all of the metadata too to prove the copyright ability and all of that. Um, which is next level stuff. Inspect a gadget. How did I forget that one, Mary?

57:52 Oh my god, that gadget gadget. Yeah, that was great. Yeah. What else was there? Astro Boy. Did you guys Astro Boy? We did have Oh man, my mind's gone blank, but yeah, Inspector Gadget was definitely a one of my favorites. Did you ever read the Bino or anything like that? Like, uh, oh, that sort of stuff. Oh my god. And Captain Planet for sure. I mean, we have to bring up Captain Planet. [laughter] Some of I'm so glad Tim's seeing this. Uh um Tim, I can't wait to get you on a future creator episode if you're still watching this as well. We there's stuff like this that the fun nostalgic stuff. I'm so glad that we did this one now, too, cuz it feels like a lot of people are going for that photo realism

58:43 and that's, you know, up to-ate modern and stuff. And this is such a breakaway. Henry's last episode was just all animation. It was next level. Oh, you you were there, weren't you in the I saw you in the audience. And now it's like, oh, nostalgia, you know, like which is such a big untapped sort of market, especially the only things I see with nostalgia, which I'm on the fence about, and I much prefer the way you do it, is these fan films that are in a world like Runescape or World of Warcraft, you know, cuz they're so like using in IP and stuff, but you're obviously like inspired by these things and making your own characters and world, which is the step they need to which goes to distribution, right? And so we see a lot of these things and I I've I we've talked about this on the stream before where we call it like

What is hi-fi slop?

59:31 uh highfidelity slop or hi-fi slop because it looks really good, but if a if an advertiser flags a piece of content because it's familiar, like the dragon, right? The dragon is the everyone's making dragons. Game of Thrones. If a if an advertiser feels that that is too close to Game of Thrones and they don't want to be put up against your content, it's dead in the water. And when you're dealing with ad supported content, the advertisers are the ones that are the ones approving everything. It's not just the networks themselves, of course. And you know what would be fascinating if people actually knew like how much Meta was supported by ads. If you ever worked at Meta or anything like this, you know, you know, it's like 96%

1:00:17 advertisers. So, but they don't, you know, like people just are in social media, not working at the social media companies to know how ad supported they need to be and stuff like that. But yeah, it's fascinating just to even get in there. Hey, look, Afro is saying trapoor, Danger Mouse, Garfield. Yeah, I love those. Absolute classics. My god, how was this not on a throwback Thursday? We should have definitely done this episode on a throwback Thursday. [laughter] I did see someone ask about like nodes or something. Korea nodes. Oh yeah, the Korea nodes. Um, I saw that question. Uh, let me try and get it up onto the stage. Are you using nodes in Korea or any opinions on them from It came from Morin.

Nodes, and why Flora is the way in

1:01:06 Yes, I say yes and no to nodes. I prefer Flora's node system um because you can work in it like a canvas collaboratively um and you don't have to know the node connection pieces. It will make the connections for you. So you can set up your characters, you know, reference names and then just reference them and it will automatically pull the nodes and everything for you. Oh. So if you're unfamiliar with set how to set up nodes, something like Flora is very helpful because it helps you think about the technical aspect of how a scene is built from the character sheet, the location references, any object references into an image into a video.

1:01:52 Um, so that's my preferred node system if I if I were to You've just blown my mind a bit because Nvidia asked me the other day, you know, what could we do with our agent and I said for it to build a node system, you know, similar to how you're suggesting it so that if you don't know nodes, it can be built and you can sort of reference how it's being built. And I think that's the truth of it is actually anything that's purely agentic needs to have an underlying architecture that you can go and learn from, you know, because otherwise it's all black magagic sort of under the hood agent stuff. And if an agent instead was building a node system that you could go in and tweak and see how it works and you know that's what they need, you know. So Flora hearing that I didn't even know that that's what Flora did. So it's a really really smart way to do things. Honestly, I think more people need that.

1:02:40 People bashed on nodes saying, "Oh, we're going straight from prompts to agentic and nodes is a pointless in between part." I've always said that that's total dog [ __ ] you know, like nodes are not for everyone because they look like kind, you know, what did Tim call it? Like the uh the murder board or something like this, you know, where it just looks like a hell of a like confusing thing. And I'll give you a hot take even like I these people that say like, "Oh, the give out the workflows, they give out this, give out that." I am the exact opposite. You know, I've spent thousands of hours developing my own workflows, my own styles. Um, I'm not giving those out to people. And it's not that I'm like being selfish with it. It's that what works for me maybe is not going to work for somebody else. And the types of stories that I'm doing may not be the same as somebody else.

Why he won't hand out his workflows

1:03:27 So, it's not going to be the same. Um, but I I personally believe that node workflow setups and customized workflows have a huge value to them and the people that want them to be free are the people that want to capitalize off of that. Um, and I am not about, you know, helping. I'm I'm down for everyone being successful, but not off of my back. You can do it yourself. Hey, we got Lola in the house. And yes, I'm swearing. It's the Black Light episode. What do you expect me [laughter] to do? Yes, we're live through LinkedIn, but you know, we're also interviewing black lights, so let's go. I never hear Chris wear before. Yeah, I try not to, honestly. I try to adults, right? [laughter] Exactly. Exactly. Oh, brilliant. Ah, murder board. Exactly. I got it right. You see, Tim, I do pay attention, mate.

1:04:18 I love your delivery. Can't wait to have you on in a special episode, by the way. It's been a long time coming for that one. Oh my god. So, where have we got to? We're at Gorbo Swimhole. Oh my god. We're in. Let's watch another video. This is where it all started. This is Well, give us more of a setup then. What happened here? What exactly came? Uh, in December of 2024, I was independent and I w had seen the West Coast AI Labs founders, the originals, Vnderworld and Hax. Um, and I was like, "Hey, I love what you guys are making. It's very counterculture. It's very against the grain. It's pushing the models in ways that nobody else is doing. It's what I really am trying to go for as well. Let's do a collaboration.

The story behind Gorbo's Swim Hole

1:05:06 And so we decided to do kind of an AI version of Everything is Terrible, which was uh some artists out of LA. They took old VHS footage and kind of mash it together into this very weird kind of mixed media film. And they've done a few of those. So, we tried to do an AI version of that, which coincidentally is a lot harder to do uh than just like prompting because you're prompting a lot of extra film to try to then put together to like make some sense of it, right? It was very early into like making my own models back then. And Gorbos was the first one I made off of childhood photos from my trips to the theme parks when I was a kid in Florida. Like old 80s and 90s art that I had from when I was a kid and kind of mash those together.

1:05:55 And Gorbo Swimhole was like it's uh based off of a water park we used to go to growing up, which was literally a swimhole. It was like a natural water thing. They closed down because a kid got a uh brain amieba or something. I heard about those crazy water amiebas in We even heard about that in the UK. You know, there's these crazy things going on in America with these water that getting into people's brain, these parasites. That was you have to squirt like vinegar in your ears whenever you after you get out of the water and you could feel or alcohol or something. It was like an alcohol mixture and you'd ever growing up in kids, they'd squirt it in your ears when you got out of the water. And so it all of this kind of came together and that's where Gorbo Swimhole started and that's where Route 47 started was was at Gorbos.

1:06:43 I love the backstory and I just love hearing about all of this. You know, the fact that you've got so many relations to all these videos in in that, you know, their places you've been or things that have been in your life, you know, I think that's what another thing is missing from a lot of AI creative stuff is actually infusing their own life and experiences into stuff. not just making fantasy worlds for fantasy world's sake, you know, actually this is exactly what Portland looks like. This is the bridge in Portland. I know it. I know the strip club, what he said or whatever that is referenced in it. And it's I think uncanny Harry does that the best, doesn't he, Andrew? He's got all these little references to like things that he knows throughout every video dotted through and we're like these little egg trails, but you're doing it on another level, too. And it's just so good to see all these examples. Anyway,

1:07:30 um, yes, love the backstory, says Gabe. And sorry to see you bounce Tim. Big love for joining in. Um, let's check out Gorbo's Swimhole. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Gorbo's SWIMHOLE, THE WETEST, WEIRDEST WATER PARK IN THE WHOLE TRI County area. Transformations may occur, folks. Emphasis on may, emphasis [music] on occur. Today, we're going deep. We're going wet. And we are not coming out the same people we went in as. First stop, the locker room. THESE LOCKERS ARE ALIVE. DON'T ASK.

GORBO'S SWIM HOLE

1:08:18 CITATION. STOP RUNNING WITH SENTIENT PROPERTY. IT'S A WATER PARK. EVERYTHING'S A LITTLE SENSIENT. [screaming] And that back there, folks, that's Gorbo's personal wing. We don't go back there. Not because we can't, just because we respect boundaries. Anyway, MOVING RIGHT ALONG. LOTS MORE PARK to see. WHO'S READY FOR A SLIDE? LET'S GO. LET'S GO.

1:09:06 THE KRAKEN'S NOGGIN. EIGHT TENTACLES. ZERO REGRETS. ALL FUN. [screaming] I found a wrench in MY POCKET I DID NOT KNOW I OWNED. THIS IS THE THIRD one today. MILDRED, ARE WE SUPPOSED TO GO THIS FAST? Nobody's told me not to.

1:09:54 And that, folks, is how you get anywhere around here. This here is the Vestigial Revival Rapids, where old parts come back to life. That one's Gary. That one's also kind of Gary. We don't really know. Vestigial Revival Rapids, where old parts come back to life. [screaming] Woo! OKAY, THAT PART DEFINITELY WASN'T IN THE safety video.

1:10:42 Gluff on top. Gluff all through. FREE IS FREE, FOLKS. MOVE. YEAH. LAST ONE. WHO WANTS IT? THIS HERE FEEDS half the park. So, drink responsibly or don't drink it at all, actually. Wa! [screaming] Wait, is it supposed to go this fast? Hold on. We're basically nutrients now.

1:11:29 She's overpulsing again. Everybody back up. That's new. That's okay. That's fine. Osmosis oscillator back online. Who's brave enough to try it first? It's mobile, Larry. We have mobile rust. Nope. Nope. Right out of that. Got it. It's already forming a union IN THERE. STAY CURIOUS, stay hydrated,

1:12:16 AND MAYBE DON'T TOUCH THE RUST. NEXT STOP, THE PUMP ROOM. HEY, YOU GOT MORE COMING. Long as the grill holds out. [screaming] LAST ONE. WHO WANTS IT? This is the beating heart of Gore Bros. Huh? I'm going to pause it there because I've recognized from the comments actually. Um, we've got a lot more to talk about in such a short session. Actually, we've only got 14 13 minutes left and we haven't even got round to the game that you're developing as part of all of this.

The Route 47 game coming to Steam

1:13:02 So, um, did you you're on mute at a moment, but um, let us know more about the game. I forgot to say that at the top of the show. What is the game that's being developed alongside? So, I was approached by some developers that came from like Insomniac, Ratchet and Clank, Subway Surfers probably about a year ago. Um, they were working on some AI stuff and gaming and then in January they kind of pivoted and they wanted to what they were working on kind of overlapped with Route 47. Yeah. And so we decided to make a game out of Route 47. Um, and we're starting with just Gorbbo Swimhole because it's so massive of like its own IP already. Um, so we're making a game that's going to be on Steam and starting with Gorbbo Swimhole.

1:13:48 You're going to be able to go to the park and experience some of the rides and activities there. It's going to be a multiplayer experience. Yeah. And so where it's like an active development right now. I have weekly calls with the team and I'm providing all the assets and they're doing all of the game development side of it. Um, so yeah, they're uh they're a really cool studio. They're I think my mind with the video that you showed me upscale with the generative world, you know, filling in, you know, Andrew, this is what we talked about, you know, the fact that there's no real like game engine and it's like, you know, rendering part of the pixels as you're walking through. But the idea here is that black light, school bow, swimming hole has all these places, you know, like a big water slide and a big this and these are like like assets you can drop in but then you can have things like sort of in between being developed. Isn't that crazy though that the gaming, the video and the film making is all sort of aligning

1:14:42 you know the virtual reality it's all coming in. you if you look at games over the last 10 years, they're like interactive movies, you know? I I sometimes like when my friend was playing one of the Call of Duty games, like I would literally watch the cutscenes. I've been watching just for the cut scenes cuz I was thinking it was really interesting. And you could go on YouTube now and just watch just the cut scenes of certain things. And so it doesn't surprise me when you've got games that are turning into films and films that are turning into games or TV shows. And the fact that what you're doing here um Black Light Well, you said something yesterday, mate. Um you said uh didn't you say GTA 6 dropped on Netflix or something? I still need to go watch that. The extended look. Yeah. Yeah. So, what what exactly is that? It's the game play. So, they've they've literally got somebody playing the game and you're seeing it.

1:15:30 And when you break down the detail of it, it's I I honestly think the reason it's been delayed is because of AI. When it comes to GTA, I think they're looking at it like if we would have put it out 2023, we would have missed the whole AI and we're gonna have to put something else out. So, I think they've just waited until it got to the point where it's like, look, we can't wait no more cuz people are getting like pissed off now. And but they've built it so you can build the game. You can you can have literally Black Light can have his world within GTA like Portland. You control Portland. like the math of your boss controlling Portland like if any anyone builds on Portland they have you have to get a cut so [laughter] it literally it's like that and I can just imagine it things like that happen I think that's what's happened but the fact that you're building a game I'd love to play that game I'd love to see that

1:16:19 the water park go to that place where like you're not I love it yeah I mean I have I can't talk about them too much but I have more so I've I've said on my profile for the longest time creating generative experiences and I've always kind of seen where this is ultimately going to um and I will be one of the like experience builders that people will be able to go in and experience the different worlds and stuff. So cool. Uh the game will be like a openw world multiplayer friendlop type of game. And Steam is the best place for it. You know, Steam is exactly where it should be distributed and those type of games feel like they've got a real space there. How does Steam feel about purely generative worlds?

How does Steam feel about generative assets?

1:17:05 Because I know that there was some kickback from like, you know, um, gaming distribution platforms about Genai and games. Have they said anything? So, we're It's kind of unique because a lot of the assets that are coming from Route 47 come from my own images and photography and art, which then made a model, which then made those images. And then it's going to those images are creating 3D assets. The 3D assets are being handbuilt into like the map and the game world itself. And so the AI part of the process is so small in comparison to the work that's being done around like building the game itself. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's so fascinating, isn't it? Because in a court you could say exactly that.

1:17:52 Like Yes. A and in fact actually isn't that what was said recently Andrew is like in the Oscars and stuff only if AI is used in the final output does it need to be declared but if it's used in the research and the writing and the planning then it doesn't need to be declared. So again like if you're ending in a 3D rendering which is a human element but AI was used as the Laura before that then we're in this weird territory again where it wasn't a final AI output. Does it need to be declared? Does it not need to be declared? Like all of these are going to be really really murky territories. I know that Australia just literally tried to ban Jen AI music for example, but then the question straight away is well what constitutes geni music if you tried some stuff in Suno but that wasn't your final output but you did research and

How do you prove human authorship?

1:18:40 songwriting or maybe got a voice or you know how much is where's the line? Everyone wants to know where is the line like human authorship. You have to be able to prove that you are a human author in it. And I I love Afro made a comment above that I I'm one of her favorite AI music producers too. Yeah, I saw that. I was about So this is one of the things Chris and I have in common. I've been a musician like I've been playing piano since I was five. I took Less Classically trained for 10 years. like music is the reason why I kind of got into a lot of this stuff because I have a lot of old like samples and diddies and songs that I would write and recordings and it was just another piece of the puzzle. But music is a perfect example of like you have to prove the authorship there, right? Especially now as we're seeing all like um Universal coming in with uh Udo and and the new acquisition with Sunno like

1:19:32 human authorship is always going to be the thing that you have to prove and the more tools that you stack on top of that the more of a house of cards it kind of becomes but if you can point to where you were the decision maker, the creator, the originator in multiple steps along that process, the easier it is to prove. So like for someone like me, I made the samples for the music. I used AI maybe for the music, but I created the rhythm, the the melody, the soundtrack. I created the images, the photography, the photos. Maybe I used AI to generate the the uh the animations and stuff, but multiple points in any part of a single project is me injecting my own stuff into it. And the more often you can do that and the edit alone is another part of it.

1:20:20 So, there's multiple points where you're like injecting yourself into that process, and the more you do that, the easier it is to explain later on. I'm so glad you said the edit, too, cuz seeing Henry's screen last week was seriously insane. I was like, you've got more layers of audio alone than most people do AI video, you know? Like, it's like such a level of detail. And I think this is one of the things that I was most excited about is finding out how many musicians were involved in AI Afro actually because always in marketing the best marketers are music heads. And this was no, you know, coincidence. I discovered this over meeting thousands of marketers. I'm like, wow, it's crazy that like the best 1% of all of you has a music background and and maybe didn't even

1:21:11 study marketing. you know, that was the common thread and it's transferred to AI beautifully. You know what? I was actually surprised it took so long because us musicians, we're used to DAWs, which is software, which was a total transfer to AI, you know, like um I'm still surprised to this day by the amount of Ableton people that haven't picked up other things and don't make music videos with Ableton Beats and stuff. So hopefully we can do something about that in the future though with the more and more musicians, you know, coming out as yes, we work in AI. Yes, we were musicians, but we don't have the same, you know, attitude towards it. I think the the hardest ones to come over, though, truly are the illustrators and the VFX people. Well, I think it's showing people, right? Like, you have We've seen so many cases of

Why you don't need millions of followers

1:21:56 fanfiction and recreations and and it's an easy in to create fanfiction stuff. It is significantly harder. Like, I'm not a gossip goblin, right? Like, I don't have a team of people and voice actors and backing and all of these things. I don't have this massive team. I'm a guy. I got a couple buddies here that I can bounce ideas off of, but I'm one dude just making all of this stuff. And it's it's showing people that as an individual, you can bring your own art to the table. And you don't need to have millions of followers to become like, you know, to reach a certain level. It's in the niche. You know, like my largest audiences are addicted to my content on Tik Tok and and on other socials because,

1:22:42 you know, that they just fell in love with it. They found it. They love it. And it's kind of they say, "Oh, my show's on." That's not mine anymore. When people claim their show is on, you don't own it anymore. Like, and so you're now creating for an audience. And and it doesn't need to be millions of people. You know, a 100,000 people that are committed to watching and being there and show up for you. That's all it takes sometimes. Yep. Wow. And a hardcore audience like you say is so much more likely to buy from you too, you know. And that's the thing and as Lola says rightly, having a big audience is a big blessing and a curse also. You know, I and we've seen many people grow in in things that they don't even want to do as a service. You know, they hop on an algorithmic trend, they gain 100,000 followers, and then they never do that thing.

1:23:28 Yeah. Exactly. then they've gained 100,000 of the wrong people because the things that they actually want to make and put out aren't going to be well received by them. So now that they've actually tainted their audience, you know, they should have just slowly crept up with the right audience, but instead they took a big chunk from the wrong audience and this get again it's we curry, right? Like think about Tim Curry and Rocky Horror. Rocky Horror was a box office flop. He was embarrassed of that film when it first came out. And then when he started to go and see that they were doing midnight screenings and it became kind of a cult classic, you know, 40 years later we're here talking about Rocky Horror Picture Show. I don't know many other films from the late '7s that we still talk about on a regular basis. It's become iconic. And so even though something doesn't today seem like it's the thing, you know, if you believe in your creations

Rocky Horror, Fight Club and the cult classic argument

1:24:18 and you can find an audience for it, cults cult classics last, you know, the ages and and people can come around to it. So it's just about staying true to yourself and your vision and to just kind of make what you want to make. Yeah, definitely. I uh I heard a quote from Brad Pitt that um you know Fight Club like the best he said that it was such um it was the best movie he thinks he's ever made and he was devastated when it flopped because he thought you know this is the best thing that's ever made but he said I'm not worried about it flopping because I know this will be in the long arc of history one of my most known and well-loved films. And how right was he? Imagine going there though and seeing the backlash of it in real time, but like then flashing forward 25 years to this is one

1:25:08 of the biggest cult classics ever made, you know? And it's the same as Scarface. Scarface happened in the in the cinema. Yeah. Now it's like like it got to the point where I was watching MTV Cribs and everyone had Scarface DVD. Like they didn't even they didn't even watch it. Yeah. Or the poster [laughter] had it's still in the rap. So I ended up going buying it just because of that. So, I've obviously I've seen it, but I bought it, just kept it in the wrap just because I was like, "Everyone has it, so I'm gonna have to have it." So, it just becomes becomes like a like I said that I think one of the key things you said there was you create your stuff, find your audience, you know, and then you get the way the world works. It's those as Seth Godian says, small little tribes and then they'll tell other people. It's the same as the TV show Money Heist on Netflix. It was on twice. It had two seasons in in like some random Spanish channel and then it

1:25:59 just Netflix just picked it up because it was when they were just trying to just get as much content as possible and then it just had a following and a bigger following and a bigger following to the point they're like look we're going to have to bring this back and next thing you know you had Neymar being in featured in it and all of these celebrities being featured in in this show and now you've got a world they've created a spin-off for this and another thing for this and and sometimes that's what it takes. Yeah. You think was that one that came out in COVID with Tiger King and that because I remember it blowing up at that time and going I can't remember when it came out. Yeah, I can't remember when it came out. It must have been around about that time. But I just remember watching I very rarely watch Spanish subtitled anything and this everyone was going money. I was like, "Okay, I'll give this a watch." Cuz, you know, it was I think it was lockdown because I was like watching a lot more shows than I would usually watch because there was nothing open, you know,

1:26:49 and uh but yeah, isn't it so strange that like people like the the funny thing about what you just said, mate, is that Netflix was trying to get as many much content as they could then. Now, Amazon Prime, Roku, all these guys are trying to do the same with AI, but they need to do quality control. And that's the thing that they're going to learn is like I read a stat that you shared actually the other day back like which is like I think fairground only accepts one in 20 or something like this something like that. Yeah. They've gotten like 2,000 plus submissions and I think onlyund don't quote me on the number but I think it was less than 200 creators they're actually like showcasing right now. Right. And think it's gonna really matter. Huh. Same thing. And that was my feedback to them is like, you know, if you want more creators to create,

What should distributors be telling creators?

1:27:38 give them the give them the rules of the box. You know, what is the what time slots are available? What are the themes that they're looking for? What type of stories do people want to watch? What is the engagement look like? Those metrics are feedback loops that a creator needs. And if you can get those faster in real time, then you're not spinning your wheels. So, you're actually building towards something and not just like market testing constantly. Exactly. Now, let me get um I'll write a quick thing for your handle for anyone that's got any follow-up questions because I recognize that we're already over and you've got a whole day ahead of you. So, we're not going to hold you back. That is the right handle to get you right on. That's me. Yeah, that's you. Okay, great. So, if you have any more follow-up questions for Blacklight, you've been very generous with your time and we know how early it is in the morning for you.

1:28:27 Really appreciate it and our SF tuners in who are even earlier in the morning which is awesome that you guys showed up. What a It's flown by this 90 days. One of the fastest creative sessions I think and I'm so glad that we finally did it because we've been talking a lot right on the phone and we talk a lot just in generally about distribution and actually caring for people. This is something I I very rarely get to say about many people, but you really want the best for people, you know, and you don't want people to get screwed over. You don't want companies to screw other people. Again, I'm not mentioning names there. I'm just being very, you know, but I I really appreciate that about you and how much you care about other independents, like, you know, not getting screwed over and everything. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been a long time coming for this episode and no doubt we'll do more in the future.

1:29:16 You mentioned a feature film to me that you're building. Like is that something that's going to be seen anytime soon or is it's on my YouTube now. It's called Mr. Midnight Hour. God, you're a machine. How do you Yeah, I can try to send Let me see if I can Oh my god. And the love's coming in from everybody as well. Uh we'll probably get some delayed feedback on LinkedIn because they're a minute or two behind the stream. So, uh check in for the love coming in after that. Thank you for rereaming it too to your audience. I noticed that your audience. Yeah. Our audience on your ex audience, your YouTube audience. Is the film Mr. Gurglesson's Midnight Hour. That's it. There we go. Yeah. Well, so I've just done it now. It's It's a So be prepared for [laughter] a descent into insanity.

1:30:05 Love it. I love what I'll be watching tonight. Yeah. There we go. And I just love the Nostalgia trip. It, like I said, it felt like a throwback Thursday, even though it's word play Wednesday. So, uh, [laughter] brilliant. Um, the last question that's coming in, what could, uh, he recommend for newer generations and students? Last question to come in. Yeah, don't get overwhelmed. Pick a uh, pick a company that is can do like all of the things you're looking for. The ones I recommend, you know, are are Crea and Craya, if you want to call it that, Magnific are good starting points. Um, they'll get you kind of what you need to get going. And then, you know, learn learn the product offerings. Don't feel rushed. Don't feel overwhelmed.

Advice for students and newcomers

1:30:53 There's a lot of pieces to it. And don't learn something new until you need it. Hey, Lionus, tuning in to the end. Thanks for showing up. Really appreciate you, man. Really appreciate you. What were you going to say, Andrew, before I rudely interrupted you? Sorry, mate. No, I was just going to say um thanks to everyone in the in the comments in the chat. So, I was going to close the show, but yeah. So, yeah, it was a really active chat, wasn't it? Really active chat this week. So, really thanks so much for showing up, you guys. We know it's so different times for everybody. Um for anybody that is new that's tuning in for the first time, we do these sessions every week, Tuesday and Wednesday. It's the same hours that you're tuning in live. So, wherever you are in the world, whatever time it is for you, keep an eye on those two hours that we've been live. Um, yeah, can't wait to see you guys again on a future session and specifically have you back for a future session.

1:31:42 Thank you so much again. Yeah, it's been so fun, hasn't it? Like I said, it absolutely enjoyed today. Really did. One of my favorite and we had loads of legends tuning in as well. So, clearly it was an episode that we really should have got earlier. And we'll see you all again in a future episode, guys. Brilliant. Thanks a lot everyone. Take care and thanks a